One more thought about forgiving others. Do we expect God to forgive us when there is no repentance? I don't. But God does not hold grudges nor is He bitter either. He waits patiently for repentance. That is the model we should look at when dealing with forgiving others debts or trespasses against us as well.

yes but we musnt forget rest of Lord's words.

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Yes, Jari, but you are reaching: If God ever took back His mercy and grace ( which people that believe in OSAS believe can't happen anyway ) and demanded that payment be made, could we ever make the payment? No. And why would He torment you over something that He'd already given you forgiveness for? For our own good? After forgiveness, there is no amount of chastisement or torment that can take place without the loss of the "Forgiven" status. Telling someone that you've forgiven them, then making them pay for it in ANY way is not forgiveness. You can't rightly tell someone that you've forgiven them and then continue to bring their offense up to them every time they are around. You can't tell your wife that you forgive her for something and turn around and smack her for the offense. You can't forgive your kids for something and turn around and ground them for a month for the offense.

Matthew 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We see by this verse that Jesus was comparing the man and his master, from the parable, to us and God. People that believe in OSAS maintain that one cannot possibly lose the forgiveness that was given, but this parable seems to say otherwise. And without the forgiveness and grace of God, it would take an eternity of torment for us to pay our debt to God. That's what I get from the parable, anyway ( but realize that you cannot interpret it the same way without forfeiting your belief in OSAS ). And fully believe that that is what was meant to be taken from the parable. Our showing mercy has a direct effect on God's mercy toward us. "The Lord's Prayer" has a similar message: Forgive us our debts as we forgive those that are indebted to us.

being saved is of grace but life it self has some conditions. i mean God can discipline us if He wishes so

Discipline you for what, Jari?

Originally Posted by Stickz

Discipline you for what, Jari?

thats something for God to decide

Isaiah 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

Once I'm saved or born of God, can I still go to hell if I mess up? Consider the following.

John 6:44. "No man can come to me (Jesus), except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 10:27-29. "My sheep (Believers in Christ) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (Notice here that we've been given to Jesus by the Father)

John 6:37-40. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Jesus won't cast us out regardless of our failures) (38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Romans so your saying all we have to do is believe in Jesus and were automatically saved? And what are we saved from?

I'm going to toss out an example just to get a reaction. The example I will use is the Reverend James Swaggart. I am not picking on him, but letting you folks decide on whether his conduct was befitting of a crown in Paradise. As some know, he was caught spending time with a prostitute. Forgivable? Certainly. However, Mr. Swaggart had implemented rules of conduct against someone else in his organization for doing such a thing. Mr. Swaggart did not feel his own rules applied to him because he was in charge. Forgivable? Worse, he repeated his former indiscretion. Forgivable? Certainly. At that point, he was made to step down whether he liked it or not. His credibility was shattered and he went from King to pauper almost overnight.

My question is simply this: had Mr. Swaggart decided the rules did not apply to him at all, would he still be eligible for a crown in Paradise? The first issue was entirely about pride, and it's our pride which separates us from God. One can argue that Mr. Swaggart would be informed on Judgement Day that Jesus never knew him. But future conduct is not indicative of present or past conduct. If so, repentance would be meaningless.

The last I heard of Mr. Swaggart, he is still preaching unless he has retired. While this is an extreme example, we go through the obedience lessons every day ranging from obeying the posted speed limit to group conformity. How we choose to spend our time is indicative of where we stand WRT our Saviour.

It may seem like a small difference, but it is a very significant one. The OSAS believers say that once you have said the sinners prayer that God is basically obligated to let you into heaven, no matter what you do. They argue that there is nothing that you can do to be saved (except say a prayer and go to church!) and that once you are saved there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation. Personally, I don't think an all wise, all knowing God would commit himself to such a flawed contract. It's all in OUR favour and nothing in his. To say that once we are saved we can do whatever we want and God HAS to save us, just does not make sense. God has standards. Jesus has standards, and we can't just pretend like they don't mean anything because we've invented this great little theology called OSAS.
The promises that Romans is talking about relate to the faithful. Not just anyone. If we want the blessings that come from the Vine, then we have to abide in it!

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Getting back to the "small difference". It's not that we could EVER do anything to make ourselves worthy of an eternity of bliss. That would be impossible. It's just that if we try to follow Jesus in FAITH then our faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:3) and then God (in his mercy) chooses to save us, because of our sincerity and it's manifestations.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Need I say more?