道虽迩，不行不至；事虽小，不为不成。------------------------<<荀子>>

Originally Posted by sunshineaaks

Couldn't have said it better myself!

You know what brother I missed the point you were trying to make and I'm sorry and I ask for your forgiveness. I understand now what you were trying to get me to see and I just wasn't seeing it.

-Rob-

Originally Posted by The Robster

I still sin, but I rest easy knowing that every sin is forgiven. And that when I ask the Lord for forgiveness it is done and He FORGETS them. I'm not over 2000 years old. Everyone of the sins of my life, past, present and future were yet future when Jesus died on the Cross and took my sins. Are you over 2000 years old? Why do Christians have such difficulty wrapping their minds around this biblical fact? Why are so many Christians sin conscious rather than being conscious of being God's righteousness and wearing the robe of righteousness all day long and being conscious that Jesus' blood cleansed you of every sin of your life? Christians spend way too much time being sin conscious as opposed to being conscious of what being a new creation is all about. We are the righteousness of God on this planet. Our debt is settled with God. The enemy will never stop trying to tempt us to sin. And if you do, just ask for forgiveness and be done with it instead of trying to be self righteous and find ways to punish yourself and to wallow in self pity because you committed a sin.

U didn't reach the righteousness of God yet

Originally Posted by The Robster

You know what brother I missed the point you were trying to make and I'm sorry and I ask for your forgiveness. I understand now what you were trying to get me to see and I just wasn't seeing it.

-Rob-

Ah Robster, you're forgiven

Originally Posted by soberxp

all wisdom good or bad....... cool
being pedantic I'm super than yours.
being your watchman..........I have told you the truth:"but you have been warned depend on what you have said."
you should read all of my posts.

Being obscure and believing one is superior or a watchmen to others is only an opinion (narcissistic though it may be) but not based on truth or fact.

Why would I want to read more when I try to get understanding from the few and there is no reciprocation or answered questions.

Originally Posted by kyval82

Hello.

I am a christain, I have been about two years now, so I am still quite a young christain. I am of pentecostal faith, and where I go to church, Our preacher has many sermons on christains needing to be perfect to go to heaven.. Usually it is said like, a christain cannot have a spot or blemish to enter into heaven, we must remain without sin, if we do sin, it must be forgiven.

I understand striving to be perfect, but do we really have to be perfect, sinnless and without blemish to go to heaven?

What does the bible say??/

Thank you all and God Bless

The beauty of the gift Christ gave us is salvation in the face of our imperfections. God knows that we will stumble and make mistakes, and honestly, I don't personally believe perfection exists, but I believe we should still strive for it.

These are just some verses that help clarify it to me:

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

"He saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7)

"But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

"Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit." (1 Peter 3:18)

We will never obtain perfection on our own. It's not possible. As believers, we are saved from our own imperfections because of the mercy of God and the sacrifice Christ made.

Originally Posted by RJ

Yes, it is not that we don't look at our sin, we do but, God has told us he doesn't!!!

What a marvelous God that has come up with a plan that takes our salvation completely out of our hands, that way we can't boast or complain! And, since we are not required to do anything but recieve this Grace, God calls it a gift and if it is a git , it is free!!!

What did Jesus say, " and the truth will set you free!!

God have mercy on us, Amen!!

Yup. If God does not see our sin why do we? We too often, are sin conscious instead of being righteousness conscious.

We are the righteousness of God!! In Christ. That which is not righteousness is sin. We cannot be both righteousness and unrighteousness Walk in that righteousness. Walk in Love and you will NEVER sin. You've been made perfect. Be perfect then.

.

Originally Posted by soberxp

道虽迩，不行不至；事虽小，不为不成。------------------------<<荀子>>

上帝保佑你，我的好朋友走在这祝福。

Originally Posted by DeiSponsa

The beauty of the gift Christ gave us is salvation in the face of our imperfections. God knows that we will stumble and make mistakes, and honestly, I don't personally believe perfection exists, but I believe we should still strive for it.

These are just some verses that help clarify it to me:

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

"He saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7)

"But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

"Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit." (1 Peter 3:18)

We will never obtain perfection on our own. It's not possible. As believers, we are saved from our own imperfections because of the mercy of God and the sacrifice Christ made.

You say we cannot be perfect?!! Are you saying that God wants us to be something impossible? Then you don't know do you? What is perfect? Again! We cannot look at modern definitions. We have to look at the meaning of the time of the writing.

Perfect. in this case Greek meaning
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
a) consummate human integrity and virtue
b) of men
1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature


Not impossible at all. So then....how do we become perfect? Get into the Word. Stay there. Get to know Jesus. Get to know the Father who is our Source. He will do the doing! All you have to do is Abide in Love.

There is nothing complicated about our life in Him. Just trust and obey as the song says.

Originally Posted by El Hombre viejo

Yup. If God does not see our sin why do we? We too often, are sin conscious instead of being righteousness conscious.

We are the righteousness of God!! In Christ. That which is not righteousness is sin. We cannot be both righteousness and unrighteousness Walk in that righteousness. Walk in Love and you will NEVER sin. You've been made perfect. Be perfect then.

.

Old Man, you are living in denial, if you think that your are still not sinful. There are no scriptural verse that you can twist to support us being sin free.
God didn't say that we would no longer sin, He said that he would not count them against us.
Romans 4:
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.

Romans 6:11
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Our sin died on the cross, it didn't leave us or simply go away.

These are all quotes from St. Paul. Are you telling the rest of us that Paul was sinful BUT, you are not?! How do you change these around and show how Paul was saying that he was righteous and could not sin? Read these carefully:

Romans 7:
17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Romans 7:20
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Romans 7:25
25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[a] a slave to the law of sin.

Now to address your comment about being perfect!:

1 Corinthians 13:
8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For(O) we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but(P) when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For(Q) now we see in a mirror dimly, but(R) then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as(S) I have been fully known.
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"] This is Paul again, talking about when we die. He says that the "perfect" comes then and not until then does our imperfection pass away. How do you change this around to show us where you are perfect now and Paul said he wasn't !?!

"If Christ is in you, God does not see your imperfection or sinful nature, he sees his son Jesus Christ. Yes God calls us blameless, Holy and Righteous but it is not our it IS NOT our blamelessness, Holiness and Righteousness but what God sees in Christ in us! Once again and unfortunately, there is a great divide between us and what the "Gospel Of Grace" means!!!