1Co 5:1 Your own members are aware that there is sexual sin going on among them. This kind of sin is not even heard of among unbelievers-a man is actually married to his father's wife.
:2 You're being arrogant when you should have been more upset about this. If you had been upset, the man who did this would have been removed from among you.
:3 Although I'm not physically present with you, I am with you in spirit. I have already judged the man who did this as though I were present with you.
:4 When you have gathered together, I am with you in spirit. Then, in the name of our Lord Jesus, and with his power,
:5 hand such a person over to Satan to destroy his corrupt nature so that his spiritual nature may be saved on the day of the Lord.
:6 It's not good for you to brag. Don't you know that a little yeast spreads through the whole batch of dough?
:7 Remove the old yeast of sin so that you may be a new batch of dough, since you don't actually have the yeast of sin. Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
:8 So we must not celebrate our festival with the old yeast of sin or with the yeast of vice and wickedness. Instead, we must celebrate it with the bread of purity and truth that has no yeast.
:9 In my letter to you I told you not to associate with people who continue to commit sexual sins.
:10 I didn't tell you that you could not have any contact with unbelievers who commit sexual sins, are greedy, are dishonest, or worship false gods. If that were the case, you would have to leave this world.
:11 Now, what I meant was that you should not associate with people who call themselves brothers or sisters in the Christian faith but live in sexual sin, are greedy, worship false gods, use abusive language, get drunk, or are dishonest. Don't eat with such people.
:12 After all, do I have any business judging those who are outside the Christian faith? Isn't it your business to judge those who are inside?
:13 God will judge those who are outside. Remove that wicked man from among you.

It seems that in todays society.. there are many "Christians" living together.. (not married) and yet still consider themselves "good Godly Christians" they have 100 excuses on why they are doing it, maybe it's financially easier, maybe they even have Children together, maybe the state they are living in recognizes "common-law" marriage. But man's laws are not God's laws. Some states also recognize same-sex marriage, but that doesn't mean God is alright with it.
How have we become so calloused to sin, maybe we have friends who "live together" and we are Ok with it, and even encouraging them and their "relationship". The bottom line is.. sin is sin, no matter what you call it. Yes God loves you and will forgive you.. but you need to repent... Get married if thats what it takes... move out if thats what it takes... maybe you are afraid they will leave you.. and maybe they will... but should any relationship be more important than your relationship with God?
- B-A-C

How have we become so calloused to sin, maybe we have friends who "live together" and we are Ok with it, and even encouraging them and their "relationship". The bottom line is.. sin is sin, no matter what you call it. Yes God loves you and will forgive you.. but you need to repent... Get married if thats what it takes... move out if thats what it takes... maybe you are afraid they will leave you.. and maybe they will... but should any relationship be more important than your relationship with God?
- B-A-C

One thing that I have learned the Hard way......... People must give you and entrance to the Truth. I see lots of things in the Body of Christ that I can only just shake my head at.

Unless I get a very strong unction of the Holy Spirit to go mention something, I have to fold my hands and keep quit.......... If someone ask me about their situation and what the scriptures say, then they have given me and the Word place in their lives.

I can't cast my pearls to swine who won't take heed and listen.

When asking these (Christians who live together) you are right. I hear all kinds of things.

"Ya, I know, but we love each other and plan to marry anyway."

"I can't leave, I want to, but who is going to pay the bills."

"It's not that simple, we bought a house together, we have to be responsible and get the mortgage paid."

"I know, I know it's sin, I'll get out........(Yet they never do.)

It amazes me that someone will choose death over life, and call themselves Christians. It is even more amazing that they say they love that person they are with, but have no concern for their spiritual welfare............. Did I miss something? Is that love??

They wonder why Satan comes in to destroy things in their life, take their children to the grave, and say God moves in Mysterious ways....... Amazing........

Jesus Is Lord.

I wonder how much the 'church' is responsible for some of the double-minded christians; one foot in the world, one in the church.

I certainly take responsibility for intellectually and socially introducing someone to the church and convincing them of the need for conversion by many other methods, other than God.

If you take up enough of someones time, meet their practical and emotional needs, show them kindness like they have never experienced before, and connect them to community that feels like family, they might agree to anything so as to fit in and please their new found family. I have discovered later on though, to my shame, that becuase the work was not God's doing, the sustainability of the 'conversion' is either temporal (until the novelty wears off) and they leave the church, or who becomes a dissembler, because they were not drawn, convicted and enlightened by the living God.

Jesus did not go chasing after people. On the whole, people followed him and he responded to their (seeking) questions.

Originally Posted by Diamondlight

Jesus did not go chasing after people. On the whole, people followed him and he responded to their (seeking) questions.

You can dump a whole truckload of birdseed in front of a bunch of birds and if they're not hungry, they won't touch it. Its the same way with drawing people to Christ. Many people think that Jesus randomly chose the Apostles (see Mt 4:18-22). I don't believe that. When He called them out, His public ministry had already begun. He'd been preaching in and around the Sea of Galilee, where they plied their trade, for months. They had all either listened to Him or heard about Him and been drawn to Him. When the time was right, the Holy Spirit directed Him to approach them.

I think God works that way today in drawing people to Himself. I've been taught to listen to the Spirit's promptings as to what to say, whom to say it to, and when to say it . I don't do it perfectly. I'm sure I miss many of His cues. But, I continue to evangelize that way because a) There's been a measure of success, and b) Its a lot easier and more fun than trying to organize and operate the whole thing by myself.

SLE

Originally Posted by Diamondlight

I wonder how much the 'church' is responsible for some of the double-minded christians; one foot in the world, one in the church.

I certainly take responsibility for intellectually and socially introducing someone to the church and convincing them of the need for conversion by many other methods, other than God.

If you take up enough of someones time, meet their practical and emotional needs, show them kindness like they have never experienced before, and connect them to community that feels like family, they might agree to anything so as to fit in and please their new found family. I have discovered later on though, to my shame, that becuase the work was not God's doing, the sustainability of the 'conversion' is either temporal (until the novelty wears off) and they leave the church, or who becomes a dissembler, because they were not drawn, convicted and enlightened by the living God.

Jesus did not go chasing after people. On the whole, people followed him and he responded to their (seeking) questions.

That is very well said!

If people are following us, what or whom are they finding?

Originally Posted by B-A-C

How have we become so calloused to sin, maybe we have friends who "live together" and we are Ok with it, and even encouraging them and their "relationship". The bottom line is.. sin is sin, no matter what you call it. Yes God loves you and will forgive you.. but you need to repent... Get married if thats what it takes... move out if thats what it takes... maybe you are afraid they will leave you.. and maybe they will... but should any relationship be more important than your relationship with God?
- B-A-C

I think your expecting a little much from the religious institution, after all it is a carnal club. They spend all their energies instructing how to mimic HolySpirit and instruct on how to slick up the outside.

Tis far better to leave religion behind, stop following a man-made institution, yield to the Lord Jesus and allow HolySpirit to work within by the power of love.

1Co 5:1 Your own members are aware that there is sexual sin going on among them. This kind of sin is not even heard of among unbelievers-a man is actually married to his father's wife.

This needs corrected; the text indicates he was sleeping with his stepmother (who was already married to his father, so she could`nt be married to the step-son ). This is actually an act of separating two people who are already married (one flesh) which can only be fornication on the part of both the step mother and the step-son. God clearly defines their 'act' as being sexually immoral.

It seems that in todays society.. there are many "Christians" living together.. (not married) and yet still consider themselves "good Godly Christians"... But man's laws are not God's laws.

It is critical to define exactly what Gods laws are concerning sexual immorality, if we are going to judge "good Godly Christians".

What is "marriage in the eyes of God?" It is written as, (according to my comprehension) when a man and a woman become "one" or are joined together in the marriage bed. (Genesis 2:24) God declares the marriage bed to be the place a man and woman become "one" flesh. God requires that man and woman remain faithful to this union, forsaking all others. God then declares them to be married, but you declare they are not. Which is it?

Before you answer that, I am well enlightened concerning Jewish ceremonial customs in Biblical times, (the 'marriage' and the ceremonial celebration being defined as two different things- one celebrating the other) as well as what traditional Gentile customs dictate. I am simply asking if Gods decree stands, or do we get to wave a piece of paper in His face that changes it, when it does`nt suit our tradition or definition of morality?

Have I missed something? I really want to know the answer to this question. It seems to me, that we are good at shouting But man's laws are not God's laws. when we happen to agree with Gods law. But when Gods law interferes with our coveted traditions, we do a whole lot of double talking. When it comes to our traditions we wont even "search the scriptures to see if these things be so." And if someone else searches the scripture and points to a contradiction...we ignore them and carry on with our traditions...or we dig our heels in and grasp at some word or verse that will allow us to keep clinging to them. The tradition must be kept alive at all costs...even if that cost is the souls we condemn with them.

Originally Posted by Coconut

It is critical to define exactly what Gods laws are concerning sexual immorality, if we are going to judge "good Godly Christians".

What is "marriage in the eyes of God?" It is written as, (according to my comprehension) when a man and a woman become "one" or are joined together in the marriage bed. (Genesis 2:24) God declares the marriage bed to be the place a man and woman become "one" flesh. God requires that man and woman remain faithful to this union, forsaking all others. God then declares them to be married, but you declare they are not. Which is it?

Before you answer that, I am well enlightened concerning Jewish ceremonial customs in Biblical times, (the 'marriage' and the ceremonial celebration being defined as two different things- one celebrating the other) as well as what traditional Gentile customs dictate. I am simply asking if Gods decree stands, or do we get to wave a piece of paper in His face that changes it, when it does`nt suit our tradition or definition of morality?

Have I missed something? I really want to know the answer to this question. It seems to me, that we are good at shouting But man's laws are not God's laws. when we happen to agree with Gods law. But when Gods law interferes with our coveted traditions, we do a whole lot of double talking. When it comes to our traditions we wont even "search the scriptures to see if these things be so." And if someone else searches the scripture and points to a contradiction...we ignore them and carry on with our traditions...or we dig our heels in and grasp at some word or verse that will allow us to keep clinging to them. The tradition must be kept alive at all costs...even if that cost is the souls we condemn with them.

Joh 8:41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God."
Act_ 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
Act 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
Act 21:25 "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."

From Merriam-Webster.com
Fornication: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

Apparently you did miss something. Marriage is MUCH more than simply sleeping together. Just because two people slept together doesn't make them married.

Exod 22:16 There were dowry's.
Matt 22:2-12 There were feasts
Matt 25:10, Luke 12:36 There were weddings
John 2:1-2 Jesus's first miracle was at a wedding

Marriage involves commitment, it is a covenant (hopefully life-long, it was meant to be)
Weddings involve a public proclamation, legal records and obligations.

Certificates of marriage and divorce were common in both the OT and NT. (Deut 24:1, 24:3, Isa 50:1, Matt 5:31, Matt 19:7)
Marriage was a ceremony often accompanied by a feast and usually performed by a priest.

The bigger part of the OT compares the nation of Israel as a wife (sometimes faithful, sometimes un-faithful)
The NT compares the church as the bride, and Christ as the groom. Christ is coming for his bride, not his girlfriend that he sleeps with. There is a huge difference.

Engagement is not marriage (Deut 20:7, Luke 1:27, Luke 2:5, Matt 1:18-19)
Without a wedding, there is no marriage. Without a marriage. It's just fornication.

B A C You have brought up a subject that is like a huge brown bare hiding under the carpet in the livingroon.

Often some couple will ay " we have been together 10 years and married 4 years. Rhis is quite common in many churches today, and those who say this seem to have no shame in what they have done. In couples who have been married several times, living together and avoiding marriage altogether seems totally natural in some churches.

In an article I read recently said that there is no such thing as a "common law marriage" in the United Satates. I have not verified this, but it sounds reasonable with the number of couples who are cohabiting.

When confronting a Chriatian couple who are cohabiting their response is much like " don't judge me, Jesus said we are not to judge each other. This sidetracts the subject and takes the spotlight away from their action of cohabiting, which is sin.

May I suggest the very best book on living together. The book is LIVING TOGETHER MYTHS, RISKS, & ANSWERS by McMananus & McManus Published by HowardBooksm a division of Simon & Schuster, Inc. New York, NY 10020.

Mike and Harriet McManus co-write this book from the fifteen years they have been in marriage counseling. This book is the best on the Myths of living together I HAVE EVER READ. Offering not only practical down to earth help and keys to a successful marriage.

This book not only gives out reasons why living together lessens our chance for happily ever after marriage, but gives things that build stronger lasting marriages.

I can not reccomend a book that is better, than the Bible itself. This book is a "MUST READ". Excellent for lay people or those in the pew, Please read it. I hope to hear from thise who have read it or you who buy and read it. Fod Bless tou all.

Originally Posted by farout

In an article I read recently said that there is no such thing as a "common law marriage" in the United Satates. I have not verified this, but it sounds reasonable with the number of couples who are cohabiting.

When confronting a Chriatian couple who are cohabiting their response is much like " don't judge me, Jesus said we are not to judge each other. This sidetracts the subject and takes the spotlight away from their action of cohabiting, which is sin.

There is common Law marriage in TX for sure. I'm not sure about other states.
I know the state of Washington does not recognize common law marriage. Those are the only two I am familiar with.

As far as not judging others. Where does the Bible say this? I hear this quoted quite often, however what the Bible really says is....

We will be forgiven as we forgive others, we will be judged as we judge others, but it doesn't say not to judge other believers, in fact it in 1 Cor 5:10-13

It tells us we SHOULD judge other believers. (But not un-believers).
1 Cor 5:12 For what do I have to do with judging non-believers? We are to judge those who are within the church.