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  1. #1
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    Why do some of us avoid tough issues?

    I posted a question to see what some of our brothers and sisters think concerning sex offenders who are registered and who are saved. My question was "can sex offenders be saved?" Now, I know they can and most of us know that as well. I have personally met some folks who say, (I've seen them saying it and my ears are still in great working condition), that they will have a place in hell or that God hates them and won't allow them into heaven. That's not what my Savior tells me. When I hear someone talk like that, it breaks my heart to think that some of us are hurting so bad that we won't allow Jesus, our Savior to take all that kind of thinking out of us. Even in a church that I was attending, the Pastor would not even let the other three pastors, (Associate, Administrative and Youth) nor any of the elders know about an individual who had been attending there for two years and just two weeks into going to this church for worship with fellow believers, the sex offender told him his current condition. It was only when one of the preschool teachers found out that a sex offender was attending their church, was there a great big to do about it even though the sex offender was doing absolutely nothing wrong. The other pastors and elders decided to really clamp down on this person so bad that he decided to go to another church. The pastors and elders said that they didn't trust him to be there but it was eventually found that the churches insurance didn't want that kind of liability and the pastors caved under the pressure. Today in this time and age, sex offenders are considered the modern day leper and with all the hype about sex crimes in the media, it's no wonder that society, including the body of Christ is caught up in this. This man who is deemed a sex offender did not violate any person nor did he do anything violent. His crime was what is called, non-violent-non-victim but he is still looked upon as a monster.I have all the facts and numbers concerning sex offenders according to the Dept. of Justice statistics and they are way way lower than other repeat offenses but the media won't let you know that and we as people, (humans) are twice as likely to enjoy hearing bad news than good...awful isn't it? When the body of Christ has folks who hold anger and hate for a certain class of their own brothers and sisters who have already been forgiven their sins by the same blood that have forgave you and me, there certainly is something wrong about it, don't you think?ThanksMozP.S. 95% of all new sex crimes are committed by a person not on any sex registry.Praise the God of Israel!

  2. #2
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    Walking in the Light

    1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    Jesus loves us all and made the way for us to have fellowship with Him. He is faithful and just and will forgive all we have done. All means all. Not some of what we have done or just the non grotesque things we have done, but ALL.

    But sometimes the consequences of our actions in this life will still follow us. For example, the murderer can be forgiven by God for taking a life but society will still demand justice and the murderer will remain imprisoned. (reminds me of a song..)

    http://www.talkjesus.com/media/m168-...s-chapman-free

    Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.



    That being said, the issues (consequences) for someone who has been convicted of sexual crimes remain. God wishes to be worshiped in spirit and truth. A convicted sexual offender is loved by God as much as anyone else. He can worship God without imposing on others. It is prudent for Church staff to protect their congregation (especially the children) from potential harm. He may never do what he was convicted for again (go and sin no more) but it would be best to avoid all appearance of evil and he should steer clear of all situations that could compromise the safety of others.

    We are to love God above all and love each other. The preschool teacher is showing love for her students by seeking to protect them from potential harm. The convicted sexual offender could show love for others by not putting them in the position to have to deal with his past crimes.

    Consequences can be harsh but God will help the individual to endure them. It may be that the pastor could assign an elder or deacon to accompany him while he is in the building. It may be an embarrassment to the man (another consequence) but the safety of others should be of paramount importance.
    Last edited by Strypes; 12-29-12 at 01:16 PM. Reason: edited to fix link to song
    : )

  3. #3
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    Its well possible that the pastor himself may be more liable to be a sexual predator than the convicted man. I know a man convicted of sexual crimes, and the girl (she was 15, he was 28) admitted later on to the police that she had lied out of anger at the man for NOT giving in to desire with her (like Joseph in Egypt), but it made NO difference, they didnt believe her afterword, thinking she was lying to protect him, even though she was believed earlier in court. God knows the heart, but we live in a flawed world, with judges that judge based on earthly knowledge, not heavenly knowledge. But we are to respect and honor our system of justice knowing that it will be wrong sometimes, and we are flawed humans also without divine knowledge of the true intentions of the hearts of mankind. He should not have been booted out of the church, but at the same time, he should not be trusted alone with any children whose parents didnt trust him, but wisdom rarely prevails when children are involved. Its a fallen world, do you expect true justice from all in a fallen twisted world?
    Do not look to dead things for life. Seek the Spirit while it may yet be found.

  4. #4
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    And what was our brother, Paul, who is credited with penning the words of much of the New Testament? Was he not a murderer or at the least a supporter of murderers? After his experience on the road to Damascus and with brother Ananias, Paul was ostracised by most of the brothers in Jerusalem... because of his history, which not a good one.

    To be condemned or set apart by those who are to be our brothers after we have repented and been forgiven by God is a terrible thing. God is able to move on and forget the adulteries committed against Him, which must be far worse than the worst of evils commited against any person, and if we are to be like we must also be able to come to such a place. Is this more than we are able to bear because of our fears and/or the love for the children?

    If it were me who had suffered the direct harm or was in danger of suffering the direct harm, it might be easy to say, I am trusting in God so I will not reject this person with the evil history in any way. When, however, the one most likely to suffer at the hands of an evil doer is an innocent child, it cannot be an easy thing at all.

    We must, [when the situation not is one being viewed from the distance (as in the present thread), but is our situation,] seek God's help to do what He would have us to do to protect those who are unable to protect themselves, be they the children or the sex offenders.

    Rules written down ahead of time do not solve all of our problems. They do not prevent people from becoming perpetrators of evil or victims of evil. This was a great lesson received from the OT as clarified by Paul, in particular.

    We must recognize and listen to the voice of God, now, in order to accomplish His will, now, in our situation. For this was the Holy Ghost given...

    "...With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

  5. #5
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    Just next week a young man who has served 12 years for murder ( a nationally publicised episode) and who has now been free for several weeks, is being baptised in our local church. I thank God that Jesus saves such as he, for I also am as guilty as he, having in the past murder in my heart.
    As for the sex offender, society for some reason or another, looks upon such people with far more disdain than murderers. An aquaintance of mine, now a believer, spent some years in jail for raping his own 2 daughters. Jesus has forgiven him, but his relationship with his family unsurprisingly has been permanently damaged. As Brad Huber said, we must continue to pay for our crimes in this life, regardless of our standing with our heavenly Father.

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    Something to consider Moznpeg, while we should offer forgiveness trust is another story. Especially when it comes to trusting someone in an area where they have (had) a weakness. Regaining trust is something that takes time and in some cases a lot of time.
    Religion is an ugly tyrant.

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  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggyfly View Post
    Something to consider Moznpeg, while we should offer forgiveness trust is another story. Especially when it comes to trusting someone in an area where they have (had) a weakness. Regaining trust is something that takes time and in some cases a lot of time.
    Very well said. To be personal, my father raped me at the age of three, after this incident happened my family moved to Florida. I did not have a relationship nor talk to him for years. It took me quite awhile, but I got the courage to call him and leave a voicemail one day telling him that I forgave him. Fast forward two years later (today) and I sent him a message on Facebook saying Merry Christmas and hoped he had a good one. Although I am being cautious about adding him as my friend on Facebook and about trusting him, I do forgive him and do not hold resentment towards him for what happened. I understand about people's response being that way and breaking your heart, as I feel the same way. I feel pity for the person who holds the hate and grudge in their heart because the only person that it hurts is them. They trap themselves in their own prison of anger.
    Don't know how to report a post? ---> http://www.talkjesus.com/support/44604-reporting-post-important-reminder.html#.UUPNsVeReSo

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  11. #8
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    what weakness?

    Hello my friend, What weakness were you considering was the weakness I was talking about here? Do you have a weakness in any area or in many areas? I do...I have several weaknesses that I bring to the cross daily and sometimes many times a day. It's a horrible thing that just because a person is on a sex offenders registry (rso), the general public considers him a threat to the-general public, even when there was absolutely no victim involved or any type of violence as well. We as humans need to think the worst of someone because, and let's face it, makes us feel superior to that person. Please don't assume that rso's are all predetors when facts show that persons not on the rso list are committing 95% of the new sex crimes and that's including a whole lot of kids under 18 who get put on that list for life for "sexting" eachother.
    Our wonderful savior Jesus wants us to keep our eyes on Him and when that happens, we don't need to fear anything...anything. True, we should not tempt our Lord by not being watchful around certain folks, but remember that you are starting to disclude them and that pushes them away from their own Savior's people and then there goes fellowship and they tend to stop going to church. Embrass them in Jesus's love and learn more about this problem that is in the body of Christ. Not just the rso's but brothers and sisters who don't trust, watch with anticipation of something happening and focusing on everything but Jesus's love that he has for all of us. Please and I really mean this...please do not shrink our Savior to a small savior. He has accepted all of us just how we are, with all of our weaknesses that offend others too because we all have those, not just a few.
    I tell you this in love because I really want you to know that there is no difference in each of us according to our loving Jesus's love for us.
    Praise God
    Moz

  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by moznpeg View Post
    Hello my friend, What weakness were you considering was the weakness I was talking about here? Do you have a weakness in any area or in many areas? I do...I have several weaknesses that I bring to the cross daily and sometimes many times a day. It's a horrible thing that just because a person is on a sex offenders registry (rso), the general public considers him a threat to the-general public, even when there was absolutely no victim involved or any type of violence as well. We as humans need to think the worst of someone because, and let's face it, makes us feel superior to that person. Please don't assume that rso's are all predetors when facts show that persons not on the rso list are committing 95% of the new sex crimes and that's including a whole lot of kids under 18 who get put on that list for life for "sexting" eachother.
    Our wonderful savior Jesus wants us to keep our eyes on Him and when that happens, we don't need to fear anything...anything. True, we should not tempt our Lord by not being watchful around certain folks, but remember that you are starting to disclude them and that pushes them away from their own Savior's people and then there goes fellowship and they tend to stop going to church. Embrass them in Jesus's love and learn more about this problem that is in the body of Christ. Not just the rso's but brothers and sisters who don't trust, watch with anticipation of something happening and focusing on everything but Jesus's love that he has for all of us. Please and I really mean this...please do not shrink our Savior to a small savior. He has accepted all of us just how we are, with all of our weaknesses that offend others too because we all have those, not just a few.
    I tell you this in love because I really want you to know that there is no difference in each of us according to our loving Jesus's love for us.
    Praise God
    Moz
    I am not passing judgement on anyone and hope you didn't take it that way. Do you consider forgiveness and trust to synonymous?
    Many times I have found that church groups are too trusting with people they only see for a couple of hours on one day a week. It is wrong to trust someone with more trust than they are capable of carrying. A good example is all of the sexual, emotional and or spiritual molestation done by clergy.

    While Jesus said we need to love one another and forgive one another I can find no place where He instructed us to trust one another after we have been treated unfairly. Is it smart to trust someone convicted of pedophilia with your preteens?

    Would you trust someone inept mechanically to change the tire or service the transmission of your car? I know I wouldn't.
    Religion is an ugly tyrant.

  13. #10
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    Very well said, dannibear, you forgive but you remain cautious with offenders. Even in my daily life, persons who have wronged me over and over, I forgive them but I keep my distance with them, and careful in dealing with them if it is necessary. It works great.

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