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  1. #71
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    If we are in Christ then we are perfect. We are blameless when we stand before God and Jesus' blood perpetually cleanses us. I mean we're a new creation with new dna. Our old self is crucified with Him. When God looks at you He sees you at your best. You're all decked out in your bridgeroom outfit. We're a king and a priest on this planet so I don't understand why some Christians can't embrace that and believe it. You are righteous in God's eyes 24hrs a day/7 days a week. No matter how bad you miss the mark some days, it doesn't change you being blameless before God. Becoming a more mature Christian and producing fruit for the Lord is different than being what you are in Christ. This is a big problem within the Body of Christ today. Many Christians do not walk in these truths. They read them int he Bible and they can quote these wonderful truths but they don't believe they are that nor do they walk like it. I can't tell you how many Christians I come across that still talk about themselves as if they are sinners. Your debt has been settled witht he Lord. Quit talking and thinking about sin and walk in these truths and you will resist and reject sin so much better.

  2. #72
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    Originally Posted by The Robster View Post
    If we are in Christ then we are perfect. We are blameless when we stand before God and Jesus' blood perpetually cleanses us. I mean we're a new creation with new dna. Our old self is crucified with Him. When God looks at you He sees you at your best. You're all decked out in your bridgeroom outfit. We're a king and a priest on this planet so I don't understand why some Christians can't embrace that and believe it. You are righteous in God's eyes 24hrs a day/7 days a week. No matter how bad you miss the mark some days, it doesn't change you being blameless before God. Becoming a more mature Christian and producing fruit for the Lord is different than being what you are in Christ. This is a big problem within the Body of Christ today. Many Christians do not walk in these truths. They read them int he Bible and they can quote these wonderful truths but they don't believe they are that nor do they walk like it. I can't tell you how many Christians I come across that still talk about themselves as if they are sinners. Your debt has been settled witht he Lord. Quit talking and thinking about sin and walk in these truths and you will resist and reject sin so much better.
    Are you without sin?

  3. #73
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    Originally Posted by sunshineaaks View Post
    Are you without sin?
    I still sin, but I rest easy knowing that every sin is forgiven. And that when I ask the Lord for forgiveness it is done and He FORGETS them. I'm not over 2000 years old. Everyone of the sins of my life, past, present and future were yet future when Jesus died on the Cross and took my sins. Are you over 2000 years old? Why do Christians have such difficulty wrapping their minds around this biblical fact? Why are so many Christians sin conscious rather than being conscious of being God's righteousness and wearing the robe of righteousness all day long and being conscious that Jesus' blood cleansed you of every sin of your life? Christians spend way too much time being sin conscious as opposed to being conscious of what being a new creation is all about. We are the righteousness of God on this planet. Our debt is settled with God. The enemy will never stop trying to tempt us to sin. And if you do, just ask for forgiveness and be done with it instead of trying to be self righteous and find ways to punish yourself and to wallow in self pity because you committed a sin.
    Last edited by The Robster; 10-31-10 at 06:01 PM.

  4. #74
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    Originally Posted by The Robster View Post
    I still sin, but I rest easy knowing that every sin is forgiven. And that when I ask the Lord for forgiveness it is done and He FORGETS them. I'm not over 2000 years old. Everyone of the sins of my life, past, present and future were yet future when Jesus died on the Cross and took my sins. Are you over 2000 years old? Why do Christians have such difficulty wrapping their minds around this biblical fact? Why are so many Christians sin conscious rather than being conscious of being God's righteousness and wearing the robe of righteousness all day long and being conscious that Jesus' blood cleansed you of every sin of your life? Christians spend way too much time being sin conscious as opposed to being conscious of what being a new creation is all about. We are the righteousness of God on this planet. Our debt is settled with God. The enemy will never stop trying to tempt us to sin. And if you do, just ask for forgiveness and be done with it instead of trying to be self righteous and find ways to punish yourself and to wallow in self pity because you committed a sin.
    By ‘forgets them’ (sins) do you mean like does not bring them up again like a nagging wife does or He ‘forgets them’ like an absent minded professor who forgets things?

    You claim that “Jesus’ blood cleansed you of every sin in your life” and yet you say you ‘still sin’ which is it?

    Have you ever heard the prisoner say how sorry he/she is when they sit in the courtroom? I am left to ask, are they sorry they got caught (not sincere sorrow for a sin) or were they really sorry for what they did in taking full responsibility for what they did AND then admitting that they DESERVE the consequence (true sorrow for a sin).

    People can superficially ask God to forgive them but go right back to what they were doing the next day believing they can come to God tomorrow to ask Him to forgive; all the while having no intention of turning from that sin.

    People don’t have to find ways to punish themselves for sin, God’s quite capable of doing that without our help. Good examples might be the Christian man who slips and has an adulterous affair and gets aids. He repents of his sin whole heartedly but that doesn’t take away the consequence of his sin which he accepts as a result of his sin. Like David, who lost his first born son as a consequence for his sin, we must take our own consequence and learn from them.

    Self righteous? Hardly. Self righteous comes in when a person believes they can sin repeatedly because Jesus died over 2000 years ago for all their past, present and future sins. Self righteous is the one who believes they can repeatedly sin without any consequence or repercussion.

    Self pity is another self absorbed attribute that has nothing to do with God, repentance, remorse for sin or sorrow for continued sin against God.

    WE are not the righteousness of God. Not one of us could ever be that good. Christ IN us IS the righteousness of God. Jesus being the ONLY one good enough, righteous enough to please God in every way IS our righteousness.

    In another post you claim that we are ‘new creation with new DNA” could you give scientific proof of this? DNA from a new born child who grows up and then accepts Christ and shows that their DNA is new? I think I must have missed that article in Science Weekly. Could you elaborate please,
    Last edited by sunshineaaks; 10-31-10 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #75
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    Originally Posted by sunshineaaks View Post
    By ‘forgets them’ (sins) do you mean like does not bring them up again like a nagging wife does or He ‘forgets them’ like an absent minded professor who forgets things?

    You claim that “Jesus’ blood cleansed you of every sin in your life” and yet you say you ‘still sin’ which is it?

    Have you ever heard the prisoner say how sorry he/she is when they sit in the courtroom? I am left to ask, are they sorry they got caught (not sincere sorrow for a sin) or were they really sorry for what they did in taking full responsibility for what they did AND then admitting that they DESERVE the consequence (true sorrow for a sin).

    People can superficially ask God to forgive them but go right back to what they were doing the next day believing they can come to God tomorrow to ask Him to forgive; all the while having no intention of turning from that sin.

    People don’t have to find ways to punish themselves for sin, God’s quite capable of doing that without our help. Good examples might be the Christian man who slips and has an adulterous affair and gets aids. He repents of his sin whole heartedly but that doesn’t take away the consequence of his sin which he accepts as a result of his sin. Like David, who lost his first born son as a consequence for his sin, we must take our own consequence and learn from them.

    Self righteous? Hardly. Self righteous comes in when a person believes they can sin repeatedly because Jesus died over 2000 years ago for all their past, present and future sins. Self righteous is the one who believes they can repeatedly sin without any consequence or repercussion.

    Self pity is another self absorbed attribute that has nothing to do with God, repentance, remorse for sin or sorrow for continued sin against God.

    WE are not the righteousness of God. Not one of us could ever be that good. Christ IN us IS the righteousness of God. Jesus being the ONLY one good enough, righteous enough to please God in every way IS our righteousness.

    In another post you claim that we are ‘new creation with new DNA” could you give scientific proof of this? DNA from a new born child who grows up and then accepts Christ and shows that their DNA is new? I think I must have missed that article in Science Weekly. Could you elaborate please,

    Seriously man is it really so hard to understand what the bible says about your sins and how Jesus took them at the Cross? When I sin, I ask God for forgivenes and I remind myself that every one of my sins were taken and forgiven by Jesus' blood nearly 2000 years ago. One of the big problems we have within Christianity today is that so many Christians over complicate and try to intellectualize every scripture to the point that they end up not understanding the scriptures. Jesus did not forgive me of my sins until Oct 31, 2010. They are forgiven for my entire life. And yes WE are the righteousness of God in Christ. The Bible says so. I think its prudent for you to spend a little more time in this area of the Word before you make statements contrary to what the Word says about every believer, about YOU. These scriptures speak for themselves. Yes sir I am what the Bible says I am. If you and other Christians want to be something else then by all means, I won't stop you. But I will always confess and believe what God says I am in Jesus Christ. Your righteousness is a gift from Jesus so stop being so self righteous and declaring yourself unworthy of that gift from Jesus and declaring yourself unworthy of calling yourself God's righteousness. Praise Jesus!


    1 Corinthians 1:30 (Amplified Bible)

    30But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].


    2 Corinthians 5:21 (Amplified Bible)

    21For our sake He made Christ [virtually] to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become [[a]endued with, viewed as being in, and examples of] the righteousness of God [what we ought to be, approved and acceptable and in right relationship with Him, by His goodness].


    Romans 8:1 (Amplified Bible)


    1THEREFORE, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.



    Ephesians 2:10 (Amplified Bible)

    10For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), [a]recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].


    2 Corinthians 5:17 (Amplified Bible)

    17Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!
    Last edited by The Robster; 10-31-10 at 07:59 PM.

  6. #76
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    Originally Posted by The Robster View Post
    I still sin, but I rest easy knowing that every sin is forgiven. And that when I ask the Lord for forgiveness it is done and He FORGETS them. I'm not over 2000 years old. Everyone of the sins of my life, past, present and future were yet future when Jesus died on the Cross and took my sins. Are you over 2000 years old? Why do Christians have such difficulty wrapping their minds around this biblical fact? Why are so many Christians sin conscious rather than being conscious of being God's righteousness and wearing the robe of righteousness all day long and being conscious that Jesus' blood cleansed you of every sin of your life? Christians spend way too much time being sin conscious as opposed to being conscious of what being a new creation is all about. We are the righteousness of God on this planet. Our debt is settled with God. The enemy will never stop trying to tempt us to sin. And if you do, just ask for forgiveness and be done with it instead of trying to be self righteous and find ways to punish yourself and to wallow in self pity because you committed a sin.
    I agree with a lot of what you say. I am sure that there are those that "wallow" in it as you mention.

    God said that he would never look at our sin again but, your thought on forgiveness I am not too sure of.

    If our sin debt is paid in full, why do you ask for forgiveness?
    Everytime you ask for forgiveness is Jesus going to be crucified again?What do you do if you forget a sin? Isn't that a lot like what God said about the 10 Commandments, in that, if you don't do all of them perfectly, all the time, then you are still in sin?

    If you are going to ask for forginess, I think you would have to do it every day, I just don't see us getting by one day witout some sort of sin in our lives.
    God looks at us and sees no sin because he sees Jesus Christ and in him ( and he in us) we are Righteous, Holy and Blameless not of our own accord, because not one, no not one of us are worthy. It is just like it is not our fruits (works) but the one who lives in us that we bear.

    I see too many people that are in bondage because of asking for forgiveness; they have a bad or negative feeling (unclean) if they don't do it every day, or they are forgetting some or they haven't asked it in a while.

    I think that one of the truths that sets you free, is the "Finality of The Cross"... why ask God for what he has already done?

    I would rather live in the peace that, the one who lives in me, will let me know when I have done wrong and will convict me to make it right, otherwise, I know I have already been forgiven. It's not that we are perfect but the one inside of us all is perfect.

    It's not that I don't care about sin, I do and I hate it. And it's not that I don't look at, when I see it I do but, it's that God said he wouldn't look at it any more!
    Last edited by RJ; 10-31-10 at 08:06 PM.
    " I'll see you here or I will see you up there or I will see you in the air"!.....Beam me up , Lord!

  7. #77
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    Originally Posted by The Robster View Post
    Seriously man is it really so hard to understand what the bible says about your sins and how Jesus took them at the Cross? When I sin, I ask God for forgivenes and I remind myself that every one of my sins were taken and forgiven by Jesus' blood nearly 2000 years ago. One of the big problems we have within Christianity today is that so many Christians over complicate and try to intellectualize every scripture to the point that they end up not understanding the scriptures. Jesus did not forgive me of my sins until Oct 31, 2010. They are forgiven for my entire life. And yes WE are the righteousness of God in Christ. The Bible says so. I think its prudent for you to spend a little more time in this area of the Word before you make statements contrary to what the Word says about every believer, about YOU. These scriptures speak for themselves. Yes sir I am what the Bible says I am. If you and other Christians want to be something else then by all means, I won't stop you. But I will always confess and believe what God says I am in Jesus Christ. Your righteousness is a gift from Jesus so stop being so self righteous and declaring yourself unworthy of that gift from Jesus and declaring yourself unworthy of calling yourself God's righteousness. Praise Jesus!


    1 Corinthians 1:30 (Amplified Bible)

    30But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].


    2 Corinthians 5:21 (Amplified Bible)

    21For our sake He made Christ [virtually] to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become [[a]endued with, viewed as being in, and examples of] the righteousness of God [what we ought to be, approved and acceptable and in right relationship with Him, by His goodness].


    Romans 8:1 (Amplified Bible)


    1THEREFORE, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.



    Ephesians 2:10 (Amplified Bible)

    10For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), [a]recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].


    2 Corinthians 5:17 (Amplified Bible)

    17Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!
    Excellent verses proclaiming Jesus righteous! Thank you!

    Self righteous is considering one's self to be God's righteousness. The lack of self righteousness is to know Jesus is God's righteousness in us. We are nothing without Him.

    Here are a few questions I think you might have missed in the previous post.

    By ‘forgets them’ (sins) do you mean like does not bring them up again like a nagging wife does or He ‘forgets them’ like an absent minded professor who forgets things?

    In another post you claim that we are ‘new creation with new DNA” could you give scientific proof of this? DNA from a new born child who grows up and then accepts Christ and shows that their DNA is new? I think I must have missed that article in Science Weekly. Could you elaborate please,

    Thanks.

  8. #78
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    Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you say. I am sure that there are those that "wallow" in it as you mention.

    God said that he would never look at our sin again but, your thought on forgiveness I am not too sure of.

    If our sin debt is paid in full, why do you ask for forgiveness?
    Everytime you ask for forgiveness is Jesus going to be crucified again?What do you do if you forget a sin? Isn't that a lot like what God said about the 10 Commandments, in that, if you don't do all of them perfectly, all the time, then you are still in sin?

    If you are going to ask for forginess, I think you would have to do it every day, I just don't see us getting by one day witout some sort of sin in our lives.
    God looks at us and sees no sin because he sees Jesus Christ and in him ( and he in us) we are Righteous, Holy and Blameless not of our own accord, because not one, no not one of us are worthy. It is just like it is not our fruits (works) but the one who lives in us that we bear.

    I see too many people that are in bondage because of asking for forgiveness; they have a bad or negative feeling (unclean) if they don't do it every day, or they are forgetting some or they haven't asked it in a while.

    I think that one of the truths that sets you free, is the "Finality of The Cross"... why ask God for what he has already done?

    I would rather live in the peace that, the one who lives in me, will let me know when I have done wrong and will convict me to make it right, otherwise, I know I have already been forgiven. It's not that we are perfect but the one inside of us all is perfect.

    It's not that I don't care about sin, I do and I hate it. And it's not that I don't look at, when I see it I do but, it's that God said he wouldn't look at it any more!
    Couldn't have said it better myself!


    I just wanted to reiterate a part of your post in agreement and add a few verses to confirm to make sure there is understanding and make sure I didn’t misunderstand or read into something that wasn’t there?:

    Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I would rather live in the peace that, the one who lives in me, will let me know when I have done wrong and will convict me to make it right, otherwise, I know I have already been forgiven. It's not that we are perfect but the one inside of us all is perfect.

    It's not that I don't care about sin, I do and I hate it. And it's not that I don't look at, when I see it I do but, it's that God said he wouldn't look at it any more!
    The verses I believe that go along with this are:

    First, we are forgiven (1John 1:9) When we have the attitude of repentance and ask forgiveness His grace is incredible!

    Second in Matthew 18:21-22, we are to forgive others infinitely as God forgives us. (this does not mean we can forgive their sin, just the person since God is the only one who can forgive sin)

    Third in 1John 3:8-9 the believer will not continue in a sinful lifestyle but will “Examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith; test yourself. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you – unless, of course, you fail the test?” (2 Corinthians 13:5) We as Christians will stumble, but we do not live a lifestyle of continual, unrepentant sin. Paul maybe said it best in Romans 7:15 who hated sin, repented of it and then asked for God’s grace to over come it. (Romans 7:24-25)

    Grace is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8) and when we sin, the Spirit convicts with a godly sorrow (2 Corinthians 7:10-11). We aren’t condemned (Romans 8:1) because we are in Christ, but Grace does not give us the excuse to go on sinning (Romans 6:1-2).

    It can not be emphasized enough that we are given grace upon grace (John 1:16) just for the fact that we are still on this earth and continually bombarded with sin; some we fall to and others gladly rejected.

    When we give a gift to someone and see it rusting in the back yard, it kind of hurts. Is God much different with the Gift He has given only to see it misused?

    Why would someone knowingly sin and claim that Jesus forgave years ago when there is no repentance of it? Why would anyone knowingly live a shadowy live when Christ offers to make us clean and whole in the bright sight of God?

    (sorry, I know that men and women speak such alien languages, I have to make sure I understand what someone else is saying….. most the time anyway):angel:
    Last edited by sunshineaaks; 11-01-10 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #79
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    Originally Posted by sunshineaaks View Post
    I’m not entirely sure what you are trying to say with Matthew 19:21 by leaving out the most important part of that verse…. “THEN COME FOLLOW ME.”

    Are you trying to say that if you want to be perfect you have to go sell what you have and give to the poor so that you will have treasures in heaven but don’t have to follow God’s command and order?

    Or as you claim in the last paragraph, all we have to do is give our great and vast amount of knowledge to those who don’t know Christ so that we then become perfect and can miserly collect our treasures in heaven? Just asking because that is what it sounds like in the out of context quote.

    “go and sell your possessions and give to the poor” was exposing the young ruler’s heart. Jesus wasn’t setting terms for salvation here by ‘works’ (IE. selling possessions or "acknowledging His Truths to others".

    He knew the young ruler loved himself and his possessions more than he did in keeping the commandments and love for his neighbor. There were only 6 of the 10 given. And second the young ruler lacked true faith that involved a willingness to surrender all to Christ. (“and come follow me” the completion of your verse 21)

    Jesus wasn’t giving a statement of salvation by charity or generosity or acknowledgment of His Truths given out, but rather He was demanding first place in the young ruler’s life. The young ruler failed the test and refused to place Jesus first in his life (evidence in vs 22)

    Also Col 1:28 what is your take on ‘teaching every man in all wisdom’? Do you mean the wisdom of God or what man considers ‘wise’ in his own eyes? (Proverbs 26:1-16)

    Colossians 2:16-23 helps in understanding the ‘perfect’ or spiritual maturity in 1:28 putting it in context rather than just another random verse. With maturity, we do become more like Jesus.
    all wisdom good or bad....... cool
    being pedantic I'm super than yours.
    being your watchman..........I have told you the truth:"but you have been warned depend on what you have said."
    you should read all of my posts.
    Last edited by soberxp; 10-31-10 at 09:25 PM. Reason: being your watchman..........I told you the truth:"but you have been warned depend on what you have said."

  10. #80
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    Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you say. I am sure that there are those that "wallow" in it as you mention.

    God said that he would never look at our sin again but, your thought on forgiveness I am not too sure of.

    If our sin debt is paid in full, why do you ask for forgiveness?
    Everytime you ask for forgiveness is Jesus going to be crucified again?What do you do if you forget a sin? Isn't that a lot like what God said about the 10 Commandments, in that, if you don't do all of them perfectly, all the time, then you are still in sin?

    If you are going to ask for forginess, I think you would have to do it every day, I just don't see us getting by one day witout some sort of sin in our lives.
    God looks at us and sees no sin because he sees Jesus Christ and in him ( and he in us) we are Righteous, Holy and Blameless not of our own accord, because not one, no not one of us are worthy. It is just like it is not our fruits (works) but the one who lives in us that we bear.

    I see too many people that are in bondage because of asking for forgiveness; they have a bad or negative feeling (unclean) if they don't do it every day, or they are forgetting some or they haven't asked it in a while.

    I think that one of the truths that sets you free, is the "Finality of The Cross"... why ask God for what he has already done?

    I would rather live in the peace that, the one who lives in me, will let me know when I have done wrong and will convict me to make it right, otherwise, I know I have already been forgiven. It's not that we are perfect but the one inside of us all is perfect.

    It's not that I don't care about sin, I do and I hate it. And it's not that I don't look at, when I see it I do but, it's that God said he wouldn't look at it any more!

    You know what brother I like your approach even better and I'm going to start putting it in practice this day forward. From now on when I happen to sin, rather than ask for forgiveness I'm just going to say that I am the righteousness of God in Christ. Jesus, You are my holiness and perfection. And just rest knowing that all my sins were forgiven. Glad I jumped into this thread. I appreciate it brother. Your approach is definitely the way to go! Thanks.

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