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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggyfly View Post
    So then not all sin was dealt with at the cross?
    Yes, Jesus died for even the willful sinner. We see in John where Jesus is talking with one of the Pharisees, who I might add, did not understand His word either. (John 3:1-10)

    Jesus further goes on to discuss His coming and why, in verses 13 to 15. Verses 16 to 18 proclaim He died for all who believe on Him. Those who believe on Him are in obedience to His word. (There is much on obedience in the old testament as well as Romans, Corinthians, Philemon, Hebrews, Peter – a good start for study)

    I’m not finding that a person can willfully sin and still enter heaven, however. Hebrews 10:1-25 gives a format for the sincere heart (verse 22) and then goes on to Christ’s judgment for those who continue in sin willfully in verses 26 to 31. It would indeed be terrifying to fall into the hands of the living God when one claims Jesus died for all their willful sins.

    Wide is the path that leads to destruction and many there are who find it. There are two roads that lead to heaven, the wide path and the narrow one. Those who are on their way to heaven through Christ and obedience to God's word (the narrow) and those who think they will get there (much like the Pharisees who called Jesus a heretic and blasphemer – the wide) These on the wide path are the ones who will find themselves seated on Christ left where He will say depart from me.

    We already know that the unbeliever is ‘raised up’ to God through Christ, already ‘dead in transgression” is made alive with Christ. The unbeliever walks according to the course of this world and the prince of power in the air with the spirit of disobedience. We already know to whom the unbeliever follow. (Eph 2)

    The believer is called away from this life. Not as a result of our own good deeds, kind words, etc but through Christ. Because we are called through Christ; the result of this gift is walking in obedience to God’s word (good deeds, kind words, etc), which He prepared in His word beforehand as our guideline to perfection.

    We are to remember that we once were separate from Christ with no hope and without God in this world but through Christ are brought near to God by the blood of Christ. (Ephesians 2)

    So, yes, all sin was dealt with at the cross, just that some believe they can continue in sin without consequence but Hebrews and many other books proves differently.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshineaaks View Post
    Excellent post! If we can willfully sin “because Jesus will forgive anyway” mentality, why then did Jesus die in the first place? The Scribes and Pharisees believed they were on their way to heaven because they did all the ‘rituals’ of purity that was law and would get them to heaven. Jesus said to them that when they arrived in heaven He would say that He never knew them. “I never knew you” means that not once were they considered to be His own.

    What kind of sense does it make to willfully sin against God? It means that there is one more senseless whip added to what He already endured, one more needless thorn to His thorn crown, one more meaningless deed He endured the wrath of God for.

    Seems to me that if a person would really appreciate what God has done for us in giving up His own perfect Son to die for us all so that we might enter heaven, we would value Christ’s love by being more like Him rather than a flippant assertion that ‘Jesus died for all our sins and we can do as we like since He took all sin on the cross’.

    Yes, He died for the pure of heart willing to be in obedience to God rather than those like the Pharisees who called Jesus a heretic and blasphemer. Wide is the path that leads to destruction. Many will believe they are on their way to heaven only to find they are placed on Jesus left side rather than the right.

    Excellent post, thank you
    Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
    Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus

    Romans - 9:31 kjv:But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness(But Israel, which followed after the god of Jacob), hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    The Doctrine of Balaam.?Numbers(Numbers)《-----check it out

    Micah - 6:5
    kjv:O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.
    niv:My people, remember what Balak king of Moab counseled and what Balaam son of Beor answered. Remember your journey from Shittim to Gilgal, that you may know the righteous acts of the LORD ."
    amp:O My people, [earnestly] remember now what Balak king of Moab devised and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him; [remember what the Lord did for you] from [1]Shittim to Gilgal, that you may know the righteous and saving acts of the Lord.(1)
    asv:O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab devised, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him; [remember] from Shittim unto Gilgal, that ye may know the righteous acts of Jehovah.
    nasb:"My people, remember now What Balak king of Moab counseled And what Balaam son of Beor answered him, {And} from Shittim to Gilgal, So that you might know the righteous acts of the LORD."
    esv:"O my people, remember what Balak king of Moab devised, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him, and what happened from Shittim to Gilgal, that you may know the saving acts of the LORD."""





    Rom 9:30-33 What shall we say then? (understanding what was just said in the previous verses, we reach the conclusion) That the Gentiles, which did not follow after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.

    Wherefore? (why not?) Because they(The Scribes and Pharisees) sought it not by faith(IN NT redemption;salvation), but as it were by the works of the law(IN OT 10 commandments). For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


    Jesus said keep the commandments.

    Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
    Last edited by soberxp; 10-30-10 at 02:11 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by soberxp View Post
    +1

    Isa 49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

    Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
    Isa 49:26 With context making reference to Israel’s enemies and her eternal deliverance from exile. The destruction of Israel’s enemies during the tribulation will also fulfill this promise. (Rev. 12:15,16 Also reference to Rev. 16)

    Gen 3:14-15 Makes reference to Christ defeating Satan. The ‘He” or “it” is reference to Christ depending on which version you read.

    There is no reference in these two verses that states that a person can willfully sin against God and still enter heaven.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshineaaks View Post
    Isa 49:26 With context making reference to Israel’s enemies and her eternal deliverance from exile. The destruction of Israel’s enemies during the tribulation will also fulfill this promise. (Rev. 12:15,16 Also reference to Rev. 16)

    Gen 3:14-15 Makes reference to Christ defeating Satan. The ‘He” or “it” is reference to Christ depending on which version you read.

    There is no reference in these two verses that states that a person can willfully sin against God and still enter heaven.

    ARE YOU TRYING TO TELLING ME,CHINESE IS THE Israel’s enemies !
    WE ARE IN PEACE!!!!!!!OUR LEADER IS BETTER THAN YOURS!!!!!

    p.s
    sorry.....every time I see the word the dragon in bible,somehow it makes me a little mad.made me felt something as Hallowmas(Halloween; everyone dresses up and pretends to be something they are not.
    )chinese dragon??????????jews dragon!!!!!!!!bible dragon??????
    Last edited by soberxp; 10-30-10 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Watch your grammer!

  5. #55
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    These are verses calling the church (Christians) to repent:Rev 3:19,Rev 3:3 ,Rev 2:16, Rev 2:5.
    Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    I apologize for nosing in but these verses used to give me fits until I learned the truth. They are commonly taken out of context and have confused many!

    Paul is not talking to saved but the unsaved here. He had a real problem during this writting with Orthodox Jewish infiltrators into the church.

    These spies would claim to believe in the gospel and participate in believing in Jesus but on the sly, would tell others that to be saved they must come back to the Temple and participated in sacrifices.

    Paul was explaining this to the real Christians, that it is impossible to fall away. This is one of the greatest supports for "Once Saved Always Saved."
    It's not a matter of God pulling away ( he said he would never leave) but it is we who let our fleshy desires get in the way.

    Paul was talking about those, in their mits, that weren't saved in the first place......these verses have put many a person into bondage of untruth!
    Once a person is saved, they will turn from sin. They will always be saved and not taken from Christ. (Romans 8:38-39) Hence, the "once saved always saved" phrase that some would like to interpret into their willful sin being forgiven as well as repentant sin. And when we do fall, Christ is our intercessor (1John 2:1). Willful sinner is far different than the repentant sinner willing to change for Christ. One is saved the other not.

    A person who believes they can continue in sin and enter heaven anyway was not saved to begin with. Hence, Paul speaking to the 'unsaved' who mistakenly believe they are saved and can remain in sin.

    Good post!

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  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by soberxp View Post
    WTF? ARE YOU TRYING TO TELLING ME,CHINESE IS THE Israel’s enemies !
    WE ARE IN PEACE!!!!!!!OUR LEADER IS BETTER THAN YOURS!!!!!
    Please watch the language and the tone my friend. This is to be a freindly discussion amonst brothers and sisters. What we have to work on is understand what we are saying to each other . Respecting different views (of which there are thousands) and following this commandment from Jesus:
    Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

    Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.


    If you believe you are walking in some revelation that another has not received that is all the more reason to be kind:
    Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

  9. #58
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    [QUOTE=soberxp;166215][WTF? ARE YOU TRYING TO TELLING ME,CHINESE IS THE Israel’s enemies !WE ARE IN PEACE!!!!!!!OUR LEADER IS BETTER THAN YOURS!!!!!

    I'm not sure what you are saying with the WTF or where Chinese comes in? Could you tell me what that abbreviation means in Christian terms and where Chinese comes in? I know quite a few Chinese people who are true believers but not all of them are, if that is the point you are trying to make.

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
    These are verses calling the church (Christians) to repent:Rev 3:19,Rev 3:3 ,Rev 2:16, Rev 2:5.
    wonderful verses, thank you so much!

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
    Please watch the language and the tone my friend. This is to be a freindly discussion amonst brothers and sisters. What we have to work on is understand what we are saying to each other . Respecting different views (of which there are thousands) and following this commandment from Jesus:
    Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

    Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

    If you believe you are walking in some revelation that another has not received that is all the more reason to be kind:
    Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    thank you for remind me,bro.appreciate

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