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  1. #21
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    Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    No one but Jesus entered heaven perfect! We are not perfect now and never will be in this physical world. If we could make ourselves perfect, what is there a need for Jesus.

    You should always allow the Holy Spirit to convict you and try to improve when you think you have sinned. But to stay up with every sin you commit and do it 24/7, is impossible. What do you do when you sin and you didn't know it? I tell you God is absolute perfection, for instance, there is no negative or doub in his being. Negativity and doubt can not coexist with God. Are you ever doubtful about anything in your life or negative? Do you ask for forgiveness for each of those?

    I am not talking about the "Nasty Five" or the "Dirty Dozen" but sin is sin; it is our imperfection that separates us from God.

    Look, please understand that if you are "Born Again", it is the Holy Spirit that lives in you that seals your salvation with God. But, Paul himself said that we only know in part, meaning we only have the first fruits of the spirit; and we continue to sin to some degree.

    And don't let some unbeliever say that if you don't make yourself "perfect" every day, then you don't care about sin! It's not that we don't look at our sin, we do but Grace is that God said he doesn't!

    Go read Romans 7 and see what St. Paul said about his own sin, he certainly didn't die perfect!!! And then look at Roman 8:1 and see what Paul has to say about the outcome of his sin!!!

    When you see sin in your life, thank the Holy Spirit for revealing it to you and thank Jeus for what he did on the cross.

    Please remember this one last thing, the "Finality of The Cross"!

    Jesus died one time for all sin and for all of us. If you ritually go to God every day and seek forgiveness, the Bible says that is like asking Jesus to die on the cross all over again and much to his public shame!!!...And that ain't going to happen!

    Yes, we have to constantly work at allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal all sorts of things in our lives, including sin but, rest assured my friend, you are forgiven! When you die and go to heaven, God will take one look at you and see Jesus Christ living in you and then he will make you perfect!

    By the way, God does not say anything about you being perfect but he does say that you are blameless, Holy and Righteous!

    God Bless
    Rj

    To say that we are not now and never can be perfect is not scriptural. Can we be perfect without Jesus? NEVER- but with Him we indeed can be and are commanded to be. He said be perfect as I am perfect. He tells us that everyone that is perfect shall be as his master. but not above his master. Paul also commands us " be perfect". He also tells us that we are being made perfect by the Spirit.



    Jiggy- amen we become perfect(mature) by growing in Christ from glory to glory. By having our sences excercised to move beyond milk and to recieve meat. To walk in obedience and importantly to partake of the sufferings of Christ- with patience- unto perfection.

  2. #22
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    Originally Posted by Faith4Bride View Post
    Rj

    To say that we are not now and never can be perfect is not scriptural. Can we be perfect without Jesus? NEVER- but with Him we indeed can be and are commanded to be. He said be perfect as I am perfect. He tells us that everyone that is perfect shall be as his master. but not above his master. Paul also commands us " be perfect". He also tells us that we are being made perfect by the Spirit.



    Jiggy- amen we become perfect(mature) by growing in Christ from glory to glory. By having our sences excercised to move beyond milk and to recieve meat. To walk in obedience and importantly to partake of the sufferings of Christ- with patience- unto perfection.
    You comment on my post but you don't read it, sounds like Congress!

    Originally Posted by RJ
    No one but Jesus entered heaven perfect! We are not perfect now and never will be in this physical world. If we could make ourselves perfect, what is there a need for Jesus.

    You should always allow the Holy Spirit to convict you and try to improve when you think you have sinned. But to stay up with every sin you commit and do it 24/7, is impossible. What do you do when you sin and you didn't know it? I tell you God is absolute perfection, for instance, there is no negative or doub in his being. Negativity and doubt can not coexist with God. Are you ever doubtful about anything in your life or negative? Do you ask for forgiveness for each of those?

    I am not talking about the "Nasty Five" or the "Dirty Dozen" but sin is sin; it is our imperfection that separates us from God.

    Look, please understand that if you are "Born Again", it is the Holy Spirit that lives in you that seals your salvation with God. But, Paul himself said that we only know in part, meaning we only have the first fruits of the spirit; and we continue to sin to some degree.

    And don't let some unbeliever say that if you don't make yourself "perfect" every day, then you don't care about sin! It's not that we don't look at our sin, we do but Grace is that God said he doesn't!


    1.

    Go read Romans 7 and see what St. Paul said about his own sin, he certainly didn't die perfect!!! And then look at Roman 8:1 and see what Paul has to say about the outcome of his sin!!!


    This is a well known, at leats I thought is was well known, this is a well known chapter where St. Paul describes his struggle with sin. And he then follows it with Ro 8:1. " For there is no condemnation for those in Jesus Christ."


    When you see sin in your life, thank the Holy Spirit for revealing it to you and thank Jeus for what he did on the cross.

    Please remember this one last thing, the "Finality of The Cross"!

    2.

    Jesus died one time for all sin and for all of us. If you ritually go to God every day and seek forgiveness, the Bible says that is like asking Jesus to die on the cross all over again and much to his public shame!!!...And that ain't going to happen!

    Yes, we have to constantly work at allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal all sorts of things in our lives, including sin but, rest assured my friend, you are forgiven! When you die and go to heaven, God will take one look at you and see Jesus Christ living in you and then he will make you perfect!

    By the way, God does not say anything about you being perfect but he does say that you are blameless, Holy and Righteous!

    God Bless


    3.
    To say that we are not now and never can be perfect is not scriptural. Can we be perfect without Jesus? NEVER- but with Him we indeed can be and are commanded to be. He said be perfect as I am perfect. He tells us that everyone that is perfect shall be as his master. but not above his master. Paul also commands us " be perfect". He also tells us that we are being made perfect by the Spirit.



    4.
    Jiggy- amen we become perfect(mature) by growing in Christ from glory to glory. By having our sences excercised to move beyond milk and to recieve meat. To walk in obedience and importantly to partake of the sufferings of Christ- with patience- unto perfection.[/QUOTE]

    No doubt we are called unto perfection, to strive to be perfect like Christ. There is no scripture that says that we become perfect in this life, on the contrary, the opposite is true:

    Roman 13
    8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    St. Paul is stating that we are imperfect in this life but there will come a time, after we die, when our imperfection will leave and finally we achieve perfection and the full fruits of the Holy Spirit. At that time, we will look God in the face and know him perfectly. " Looking God in The Face" has a deep rooted meaning to the Jew and proves that we are not and can not be perfect in this life.
    " I'll see you here or I will see you up there or I will see you in the air"!.....Beam me up , Lord!

  3. #23
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    Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
    That my friend is where the grace of God comes in:
    Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
    serve the law of God
    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


    with the flesh the law of sin.
    Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
    1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
    1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


    Gal 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
    Gal 4:25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
    Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
    Gal 4:27 For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."
    Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
    Gal 4:29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.
    Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
    Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

    Paul has changed a lot through reading these verses.

    Romans - 9:31 kjv:But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    Rom 9:30-33 What shall we say then? (understanding what was just said in the previous verses, we reach the conclusion) That the Gentiles, which did not follow after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.

    Wherefore? (why not?) Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


    Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
    Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
    Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
    Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
    Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
    Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
    Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
    Last edited by soberxp; 10-28-10 at 12:47 PM.

  4. #24
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    1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


    Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

    Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:


    Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

    2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Jam 1:4 But let patience have [her] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

    Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.

    1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].

  5. #25
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    Originally Posted by Faith4Bride View Post
    1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


    Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

    Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:


    Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

    2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Jam 1:4 But let patience have [her] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

    Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.

    1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].
    With all due respect:

    Originally Posted by Faith4Bride View Post
    1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: Your taking the word perfect out of context from the KJV, does not mean perfect as in with out flaws or perfect as God, that only comes after physical death when we have the full power of the Holy Spirit in us. This perfect refers to the mature wisdom of a believer as apposed to a non-believer for which the gospel is folly.


    Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Again, perfect here does not mean the perfect that you think, it means "mature" in our thinking, again a person who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit as apposed to some one who is not!

    Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:


    Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

    2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Jam 1:4 But let patience have [her] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

    Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.

    1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].
    All of these are basically the same:
    The use of perfect here as all your other references is the Greek term telos, which meant “ fully equipped for an assigned task i.e.
    1 Broken limbs being healed and becoming useful again
    2 Fishing nets being mended again and thereby being able to catch fish
    3. The term “something used but in perfect condition
    4.A common one: “Ships being fitted with ropes and sails and otherwise made ready for sea
    It does not imply sinlessness, but functional maturity
    Last edited by RJ; 10-28-10 at 04:03 PM.
    " I'll see you here or I will see you up there or I will see you in the air"!.....Beam me up , Lord!

  6. #26
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    Originally Posted by Faith4Bride View Post
    Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
    Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
    "Striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily."

    Here's another statement from Paul that goes right along with this.

    And I pray that Christ will be more and more at home in your hearts as you trust in him. May your roots go down deep into the soil of God's marvelous love. And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love really is.
    May you experience the love of Christ, though it is so great you will never fully understand it. Then you will be filled with the fullness of life and power that comes from God. Now glory be to God! By His mighty power at work within us, he is able to accomplish infinitely more than we would ever dare to ask or hope. Eph. 3:17-20

    And then Here is something John said.

    We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in him. God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we are like Christ here in this world. Such love has no fear because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of judgment, and this shows that his love has not been perfected in us.
    Religion is an ugly tyrant.

  7. #27
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    Much to be said about obedience to God's word. It kind of takes away the excuse ‘I can do as I please and am forgiven anyway” or the ‘I’m perfect and don’t need to repent and turn from sin”.
    I agree. Many people whom I know, believe that you can sin "on purpose" and then just ask for forgiveness later. How does that work? It's like saying to God you're going to kill someone but you know he is going to forgive you, or steal money and just again ask for forgiveness later and you're not really sorry about it.

    I also believe that if you ask for forgiveness with a pure heart God will forgive you.

  8. #28
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    Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
    I agree. Many people whom I know, believe that you can sin "on purpose" and then just ask for forgiveness later. How does that work? It's like saying to God you're going to kill someone but you know he is going to forgive you, or steal money and just again ask for forgiveness later and you're not really sorry about it.

    I also believe that if you ask for forgiveness with a pure heart God will forgive you.
    So then not all sin was dealt with at the cross?
    Religion is an ugly tyrant.

  9. #29
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    could u believe that god look at us like this....if we are not in Christ then we are sin?
    and bible clearly told us GOD ONLY Raise Up Jesus Christ.........and we are the body of Christ.....not the body of sin
    god want us as his children not sin......
    Last edited by soberxp; 10-29-10 at 09:23 AM.

  10. #30
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    Originally Posted by soberxp View Post
    could u believe that god look at us like this....if we are not in Christ then we are sin?
    and bible clearly told us GOD ONLY Raise Up Jesus Christ.........and we are the body of Christ.....not the body of sin
    god want us as his children not sin......
    Can you post some scripture to support your statement?
    Religion is an ugly tyrant.

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