Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
Facebook Tweet Share
shares
  1. #1

    Are God and the devil the same being?

    What I mean by this, is that although God is good, why would he allow such horrific things to happen on earth? If he has the power over evil, why can't he stop all the bad things that happen in the world every day? I know the obvious response would be that it's down to the human individual, but surely he has the power to override our negative thoughts?

    Peace and love to all,
    regards,
    kelley

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    22
    Gender
    Male
    If God Wipe out all evil in the world, we would have to go with it. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

    Also, God wanted beings that would worship him out of choice, not by forcing them too. If he took out all suffering and pain in the world right now, would he get beings forced or beings that choose?

    Also, Evil is without God. God cannot be Evil and Holy at the same time.

  3. Likes Noma Khabo liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Branson, MO
    Posts
    1,339
    Gender
    Male

    um... sort of.

    Well, kinda of a good answer. Penguins4123

    First, God never created anything to fail. He never created evil. Lucifer was created a very wise and beautiful angel. We are told that Bad was found in the devil, though he was created perfect.

    Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    Satan was just an angel, but an anointed angel. Anointed means that Satan carried with him the power of God. For some reason, Satan was about to make choices, not something that angels should do as they are created as servants only. There are some things that God had appointed Satan to, long before Adam and Eve.

    If we look at Genesis chapter 1:1 We see at the very start God created the Heavens (Stars) and the earth. Then in the next chapter we see that the earth was without form and void. The Hebrew meaning of void means to be laid waste.

    Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

    The start of Genesis chapter one

    Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
    Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

    No man on the earth, the mountains had been shaken and all the birds were gone.

    Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

    It would seem that something happened to the earth at the time Satan rebelled. There are some other scriptures to support this, but no conclusive evidence. One thing is for certain, when God's angels rebelled against him to follow Satan, things got pretty bad.

    Now, with the angels separated, God's first creation rebelled against him. Not God's fault, but Hell was originally created to keep bad angels not bad humans. The bible says hell is expanding...

    So, God decides he wants to fellowship with someone on his level. Satan wants to be like God. (Isa 14) God makes man in his own image. This put man in the god class above angels and someone on God's level to fellowship with and share with.

    God had heaven, and he Gave Adam the earth. Satan was also given a place above the earth, not exactly what Satan wanted, but God did make a provision for him.

    Satan figured that if Adam obeyed him, that would in effect make Satan just like God. Adam was suppose to protect the garden and keep Mr Devil out. Well, Adam obeyed Satan, and Satan became Adams god, and Satan got the lease to the earth from Adam becoming the god of this world.

    When Adam obeyed Satan, death took a grip on this planet. All that power and anointing Adam had was twisted by sin, and the whole planet suffered. By one mans sin death reigned. God did not curse the earth, it was the effect of sin, and Satan getting the lease to the planet.That is how destructive sin is.

    So, God was left out again. God can't make a better man, because he already duplicated himself. If anyone has suffered loss, it would be God. He has done nothing but good.

    So, comes Jesus. Jesus got back from the Devil what he stole from Adam. For by one mans sin death reigned, how much more shall we reign in life by Christ Jesus.

    What the Devil did with Adam, can not even compare to what Jesus had done back for us. So, we can have the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, or we can live under the curse.

    What I mean by this, is that although God is good, why would he allow such horrific things to happen on earth?
    God is not the one in control of the earth. Satan the god of this world is in control. For God to just take everything from Satan would not be just or fair. God has to do this in a way, where Satan can never accuse God of any wrong. Satan, got control of the earth though Adam. He has been given an appointed time, and then it's all over, His lease expires.

    We have been given authority over the devil. Luke 10:19. As believers we have authority in the name of Jesus over all powers of darkness. We are told to resist the devil and watch him as he is an adversary. We have to do something with the Devil, not God. Sadly most Christians do not even know they are the ones that have to take authority over the devil.


    but surely he has the power to override our negative thoughts?
    We are told to cast down every imagination that goes against the word of God. we are also told to think on good things, not bad things. We are told to be transformed with the renewing of our mind by the Word of God. You have a choice to dwell on bad thoughts, or take authority over them. When bad thoughts come to me, I praise God. You can't speak praises to God and quote scriptures and still maintain bad thoughts. God made you that way.

    Now we are no longer still sinners saved by grace. we use to be.

    And if God took Satan out, People still would choose evil as that is their nature.

    Jesus Is Lord.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    14
    Gender
    Male
    Well, I have a few answers to this question.

    The short answer:
    The Devil is God's shadow.

    The long answer:
    We cannot have up without down, or left without right, a smile without a frown, or day without night.

    The literary answer:
    In all stories there is an antagonist. Try and write a story, without a difficulty or problem that has to be overcome. Its just not possible. Birds fly only because if falling were not possible, then flying would have no meaning; it would not be possible either.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    22
    Gender
    Male
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanAB View Post
    Well, I have a few answers to this question.

    The short answer:
    The Devil is God's shadow.

    The long answer:
    We cannot have up without down, or left without right, a smile without a frown, or day without night.

    The literary answer:
    In all stories there is an antagonist. Try and write a story, without a difficulty or problem that has to be overcome. Its just not possible. Birds fly only because if falling were not possible, then flying would have no meaning; it would not be possible either.
    The answer that God needed Satan is wrong. You can have Good without evil but you can't have evil without Good. Evil is without God. God neither approves nor authored evil

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Nairobi
    Age
    30
    Posts
    48
    Gender
    Male

    The Genesis answer

    I always love to take people back to the book of Genesis to answer this questions.

    At a recent interview in the BBC, a Jewish Rabbi gave an interesting answer to this age-old question as to why God allows suffering.

    " ...God allows suffering to prove to us that our choices matter..If God stepped in every time to rescue us from the consequences of our choices, we would not be creatures of choice...."

    Mind you, this is a Jewish Rabbi giving this answer.

    You might not know this, but most jews are atheists because they could not understand how the God of Israel could allow Hitler to bake the children of Israel in crematoria, or all the other evil things he did.

    What is worship? It is adoring certain characteristics of a moral being, reminding that moral being to take note of them and even continue in them.That is why angels worship God.

    God was hard-pressed to prove His Character after Lucifer's rebellion.This is why God never did away with Lucifer.Can God be trusted to sit as the Ruler of the Universe, Angels asked.So with time,especially after the creation of Man,God continued to Prove His Holiness to His Angels, by displaying the selfish,destructive nature of Lucifer.

    He could not kick Lucifer out of Man's territory because His Character reminded Him that the earth was man's possesion, to do with it as he pleased,because Adam was "God" over the earth,with full dominion,especially spiritually, over it.With God over Him as creator,Man could maintain the earth.

    But Adam's rebellion was a statement that God was not worthy to be the source of man's wisdom.It was an indirect form of worship to lucifer.So man chose lucifer's notion of self-determination as his guiding principle,showing God as unworthy to be the source of wisdom for Man.No wonder Lucifer had the right to receive power over Man, as the new source of his wisdom, with grave consequences.

    God "created" a reason to help Man against God's Justice in abandoning men to their new ruler by placing His Son, as Man, in lucifer's domain.By Killing Jesus, Lucifer disqualified himself as ruler over men by losing his prized possesion, mankind, in punishment.

    So suffering continues until the earth is brought under subjection of the Man Jesus, whose source of Wisdom is God.
    A young man who is a student of prophecy.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    14
    Gender
    Male
    The answer that God needed Satan is wrong. You can have Good without evil but you can't have evil without Good. Evil is without God. God neither approves nor authored evil
    Aah. You are right.
    I did not phrase this properly.
    It is the possibility of evil that makes good what it is. It sounds like I was saying that we must make evil decisions to prove good exists. Sorry. I was unintentionally being a bit ambiguous there.

    The other post points this out a bit better, by showing that the possibility of evil is what gives us free will to do good.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Branson, MO
    Posts
    1,339
    Gender
    Male

    ah ha....

    The Devil is not God's Shadow. Satan is a fallen spirit, or a spirit that opposed God.

    The devil has no authority or power. Jesus stripped him of that. If you want to mess the devil up then don't listen to him. The devil has no ability to hurt you if you will not take sides with him.

    Looking at scriptures we see things like Psalm 91 that talks about the snare of the Fowler. Another way to put it is the traps of the devil.
    Surely He shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. Psalm 91:3


    God gave us the Holy Ghost to lead us away from these traps, gave us angels for protection, and gave us authority over the devil.

    So, the devil is not an issue. Not believing the Word of God, living in fear and listening to the devil and his lies is the issue.

    Jesus Is Lord.
    Last edited by Br. Bear; 10-05-08 at 12:08 PM. Reason: typo

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    14
    Gender
    Male
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mike View Post
    The Devil is not God's Shadow. Satan is a fallen spirit, or a spirit that opposed God.

    The devil has no authority or power. Jesus stripped him of that. If you want to mess the devil up then don't listen to him. The devil has no ability to hurt you if you will not take sides with him.

    Looking at scriptures we see things like Psalm 91 that talks about the snare of the Fowler. Another way to put it is the traps of the devil.
    Surely He shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. Psalm 91:3


    God gave us the Holy Ghost to lead us away from these traps, gave us angels for protection, and gave us authority over the devil.

    So, the devil is not an issue. Not believing the Word of God, living in fear and listening to the devil and his lies is the issue.

    Jesus Is Lord.
    Now that is the best answer.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6
    Gender
    Male
    He basically started a revolution of Love through Jesus and left us in charge .. You have the power of the Living God inside you -

    When Jesus died he gave you an inheritance in the Kingdom of God. You have power and authority to bring Heaven's reality to earth ..

    Be a world changer !

  12. Likes Ophel liked this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. How the devil
    By Anglican in forum Poetry
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-03-11, 12:13 PM
  2. The devil
    By Anglican in forum Poetry
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-19-10, 12:02 PM
  3. Is There Really a Devil?
    By Word of Life in forum Bible Study Hall
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-02-08, 12:02 AM
  4. devil?
    By GHooooST in forum Bible Study Hall
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-28-07, 03:56 PM
  5. Between God, Me And The Devil
    By Banjo in forum Counseling
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-27-04, 02:16 PM

Thread Participants: 11

About us

Welcome to Talk Jesus Forums! If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. You will need to register before you can post. Our Purpose: spread the Good News to the ends of the Earth [Mark 16:15]. We're also here to edify the church [Ephesians 4:11-12]. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. We love you and glad you are here!

 

ask & you shall receive...

Please feel comfortable and ask your questions freely in the appropriate forum. As a community, we will help you find the answers about Jesus / GOD, Bible, general life questions and so forth. We're here to support you and each other.

 

faq forum etiquette surprise me!

 

the evidence topical studies
let's socialize
our facebook friends
Facebook Tweet StumbleUpon Digg Email Print Share
shares