there are 321 people online

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 40
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    southern interior
    Posts
    34
    Gender
    Female
    Post Likes
    To anyone in the same situation, try the daveramsey website and check out Total Money Makeover from your local library. Lot's of helpful advice and and easy step by step way to get out of debt.

    I would shop around for the mutual fund stuff, just to make the most informed decision. As for how to get out of debt, Dave has some awesome and workable ideas. It is helping me. Lots of youtube videos on how to move up to an almost new car without getting into debt or making loan payments.

    Mae
    Repent each day to the living, Holy God who will in His infinite mercy forgive you.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    44
    Gender
    Male
    Post Likes
    Thought I'd update you on this. I did in the end stop paying tithes. I've prayed many times with regards to my situation and got the feeling that the Lord knows how painful it was for me to stop and that he'll support me.

    Because of me knowing how important this all is I asked the Lord to discipline me if I'm doing wrong. So far I haven't paid tithe for three months. In total I've managed to pay of £1000 which is quite an achievement for me although the debt is still quite high.

    Although the experience has taught me how to manage my money while saving a little for an emergency fund.

    The Lord knows how much I dream of saving and giving to the poor as my life experience has awakened me to the number of people that struggle with debt / poverty issues.

    To be honest I've been asking the Lord for ages what mission he wants me to perform in my short space of life... and I seem to be shaped towards those in poverty.

    I know the simple things which can bring joy in peoples life that struggle in these situations. Once I've sorted myself out I know that I'll bring happiness to many. Although it might be short lived and not enough at least it'll be something.

    What joy... although still a long way off.

    If you cannot afford to pay your tithe, due to the deby hanging over your life, do not give it. Jesus understands all people.
    I think you're right. The Lord knows our harts but be warned, I don't think my action will work for all however.
    Doesn’t God have to exist by necessity in order to have something in the first place?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    429
    Gender
    Female
    Post Likes
    I personally do not like talking about tithing because I feel it is between that person and God and nobody else. There are those that are die hard give to the local church as the "storehouse". And there are those that are die hard "that is old testament and we are no longer under the law".

    The Bible says "God loves a cheerful giver" and if you go to give an offering and remember your brother has alt against you then leave your offering and go to your brother and make it right then come back.


    Well when I first gave my life to Jesus when I was 16, I had no clue what tithing was and it was never discussed in the church i was attending at the time. After college I met a friend whose father explained it to me and I decided to "tithe" but I still didn't fully understand the concept of it being "trust".

    I tithed for several years but did it out of obligation more than "love".


    I had an Italian sports car (Bertone) and excellent credit and an excellent job etc. Then I met my ex husband. When I married Robert I was financially stable and had all the material things I needed. He didn't "believe" in tithing but I continued tithing my salary. Well after two years of marriage, Robert had maxed out all my credit cards, wrecked my car, and had us in bankruptcy court. (chapter 13). After my daughter was born I quit my excellent job to be a stay at home mom. So there was no tithe at all.

    Then came his adultery and the divorce. And I got a job and started tithing again. I always had what I needed when I needed it without fail. I understand now that the tithe is worship not obligation. And I have seen the windows of heaven open to bless me.

    For ten years I tithed to the church where I attended. (Metro Heights, Stockbridge GA). I remember over the years numerous "talks" about the necessity of tithing. One of the things the pastor would say was "your place is to give and trust that "the church" will use it wisely", The pastor drove a new corvette and his wife drove a Lexus. A "love" offering was taken to give him a new Harley Davidson motorcycle for his tenth anniversary etc.

    Well.. That pastor (Calvin Yarborough) had an affair and after he resigned and the books were reviewed, Metro Heights was in extreme debt and bills we had taken love offerings for were still unpaid. The church was never able to bring charges against Calvin because all the records were missing. (that was 2002)

    I continued tithing to Metro Heights though my home situation was rather desperate. Being a single mother has many challenges but I continued to tithe. Then one day I was about to loose my house and ask for help from the "church". It was shortly after Katrina and I was told they couldn't help me because they had helped the Katrina victims.

    I was watching a Christian TV show on Daystar network one night and they said to call in if you needed help. Well I needed help so I called.

    Part of the process of getting help through them was to fill out a form that the pastor of my church had to sign. One of the questions on the form regarded tithing and the records show that I was faithful in the tithe. Daystar called my pastor (interim pastor-metro never did get a regular pastor before it closed it's doors in July 2006 when it was bought by MT Vernon Baptist). I do not know what that conversation was about but I did not get help from Daystar and My Sunday school class paid the past due on my home and praise God my need was met.

    It is my belief that Daystar shamed the Pastor for not helping.


    Long story short. I do not tithe to the church where I attend (though I believe the church i currently attend are good stewards).

    In Malichi the purpose of the tithe is so "there will be food in my house".

    not so there is a lexus in the pastors parking space!

    anyway, I still give but not in the traditional way. When I see someone in need, if it is within my ability, I meet that need. When I get paid in my head i calculate the 10 percent and I let God show me where to "give it". It has been in the form of concert tickets to Christian concerts, food, several bibles and helping neighbors and the homeless.

    God knows my heart (and yours) and I would encourage you to listen to the Holy Spirit and to remember that the tithe is WORSHIP not obligation.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Diego Martin
    Age
    63
    Posts
    68
    Gender
    Female
    Post Likes
    Dear Sasyboy
    I am glad you made your decision between you and God and that its working out for you.
    I pray the day you will be out of debt and freed from that burden in Jesus name amen.
    Thank you Jesus.
    Lizabe

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    25
    Gender
    Female
    Post Likes
    I'm sure God is smiling at what you're doing. However, I believe He wants us to tithe as well as avoid (or eliminate) debt. Giving tithe is an external testimony of God's ownership of everything in our lives. It's an act of worship. "All" things are possible through Him. Put God and the Kingdom first and he will provide for all the rest.

    Matthew 6:25-33:

    "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be [s]against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions, or whatever is trusted in).

    "Therefore I tell you, stop being [v]perpetually uneasy (anxious and worried) about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink; or about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life greater [in quality] than food, and the body [far above and more excellent] than clothing?

    "Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father keeps feeding them. Are you not worth much more than they?

    "And who of you by worrying and being anxious can add one unit of measure (cubit) to his stature or to the span of his life?(B)

    "And why should you be anxious about clothes? Consider the lilies of the field and learn thoroughly how they grow; they neither toil nor spin.

    "Yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his magnificence (excellence, dignity, and grace) was not arrayed like one of these. [I Kings 10:4-7.]

    "But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and green and tomorrow is tossed into the furnace, will He not much more surely clothe you, O you of little faith?

    "Therefore do not worry and be anxious, saying, What are we going to have to eat? or, What are we going to have to drink? or, What are we going to have to wear?

    "For the Gentiles (heathen) wish for and crave and diligently seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows well that you need them all.

    "But seek (aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness (His way of doing and being right), and then all these things taken together will be given you besides."


    "A farmer always keeps a portion of each harvest as seed stock to be planted the next season. If he didn't, he would not be able to grow another crop. As Christians, our tithe is our seed stock (2 Corinthians 9:10). Proverbs 3:9-10 says that we need to honor God by giving Him the first fruits of our produce (income or compensation). Therefore the first portion of our income belongs to God. It doesn't belong to anyone else—not even creditors." (Crown Financial Ministries)
    "For people who feel that they cannot afford to give the full tithe because they have too much debt, yet they are willing and want to tithe, perhaps there is an option that can satisfy both situations. Because God expects us to remain true to biblical principles, if we have made prior vows (in the form of taking on a debt) to man before making a vow to tithe to God, God directs that the vow be maintained in order to present a good witness (see Proverbs 22:1). In such cases, the tithe should come from the money not already pledged to creditors, but available to disperse. However, a commitment to give to God would certainly take precedence over any payment to creditors for debts contracted after a pledge was made to tithe." (Crown)

    Additional Resources:
    --Crown Financial's article, "Finding Financial Freedom."
    --"Quicken Online" (has amazing money management software to use for free)
    --The following sermon notes I took:



    There are 2350 verses about money. Half of Jesus' parables are about material possessions and money. Jesus spoke more about money and its application than heaven or hell combined!

    Money is the greatest temptation for us. Money is a tool, a test and a testimony, when we handle it well.

    In order to engage in kingdom business, we cannot get distracted. Two things that distract us from doing kingdom business are greed (the number one thing) and fear. Fear is what happens when bubbles burst. If you want to know what your hope is in, just look at what you fear. The doomsday prophets are out again. It's all about fear, all about "we need to hoard", "you better protect yourself."

    People who make it through financial crisis follow five key biblical principles:

    1) God owns it all. "'All [of it] is mine' says the Lord." God claims it all. It is his and he owns it all. Psalms 24:1 declares, "The earth is the Lord's, and all it contains," and in 1 Corinthians 4:7, Paul asks, "And what do you have that you did not receive?"

    2) Long term written financial goals. If you aim at nothing, you hit it every time. Where's the finish line?

    3) Avoid being a slave to debt. The bible says don't be a slave to the lender. It doesn't say debt is a sin, it says it's bondage. The opposite of bondage is freedom. If you choose bondage, you reject freedom. Every choice you make is a rejection of something. Look at what you're choosing and also look at what you're rejecting.

    4) Spend less than you earn. And you do it for a long period of time. You need to avoid a consumptive lifestyle. It's the parable of the faithful steward: Jesus says, Hey look, if you're faithful with little, you'll be faithful with much. If you're unfaithful with little, you'lll be unfaithful with much. You need to avoid a consumptive lifestyle.

    ...I was a million dollars in debt...My life turned around when I started understanding what God wanted from me and understanding those principles and what was in that bible about money.


    Get...

    --A short term plan
    Set your foundation like this
    1) Get out of consumer debt. You cannot make the return you can make by paying off a credit card. Pay your credit card off.
    2) Keep one months living expenses in a checkbook and one year of cash around. You don't go to the next step until you get there.
    3) Then you put away savings--if youre' going to need a car, down payment for a house,...You put it away in savings.
    ^This first stage is called liquidity--you become the bank.

    --A long term plan: planning for retirement.

    There is accountability for your engagement.

    "..that he [Jesus] might know what they had gained by doing business..."

    "Well done, good servant. ....Because you have been faithful over little, you will have authority over ten cities [on the remade earth]."

    "Heaven is a remade earth." (Randy Alcorn)

    This man believed Jesus and obeyed him. He applied Luke 6:38? that says "Give and it will be given unto you." How much will be given to you? By your standard of measure, it will be measured to you."

    This person was a grace giver. Not looking for loopholes in the scripture ("Is tithing before tax or after...") A grace giver always asks the question, "Can we?" "How much can we get there?" not "how much can we get away with?" They're asking "Can we go above the 10%?" Which, by the way, seems to be a standard.

    [Hebrews 4, order of malchisadeck] "Tithe...is now given to him who now lives" Tithe is an act of worship, not a law anymore. How much can you worship?

    God is saying "Move it to heaven."

    Grace giver says, "How much can I get there?", not "how much can I get away with?" It's a whole different attitude.If you're ever going to be a good steward of God's money, you have got to change your attitude, you've got to have a heart change by the Lord and say, "What good is it going to do me here?"

    Michael Jackson couldn't take any of his millions with him. How much impact did he have on the world? With your money or anything else? How much impact will we have? Are you going to be a grace giver or are you going to be a duty giver?

    [Second servant in parable]...Duty giver always asks the question, "Should we?" Always looking for an excuse for why they shouldn't give more. Quit looking for a way out. Notice [with the second servant], there is no "Well done."

    The third servant is given to fear. He thinks there's going to be an economic earthquake. He kept his money "laid away in a hankerchief...for I was afraid of you..." "Why didn't you put my money in the bank" He's saying "Here's the *least* you could have done. Could you have done something with your life, instead of protecting your life and living for this world only?" "For the one has none, even what he has will be taken away"

    There will be accoutability. This servant never got in the game. We have a wrong view of this world and the world we stand in.

    This is the world we live in:

    • 50% live in abject poverty--no shoes, no consistent food source, no clean water
    • 40%--two pairs of shoes, generally consistent food source, clean water, no medical care
    • That is 90% of the world.
    • 5% are getting by--some housing/shelter, clean water, some medical care, clothing, some educational opportunities (places like eastern and western europe and places in the US)
    • 4.5% live an american middle class lifestyle--about 50,000 a year of income.
    • .5% live american wealthy lifestyle
    • 2/3rds of the world live in depression every day of their life.


    Christians earn 2.5 trillion annually. There's only 7 economies in the world larger than the christian economy in America. Far less than 20% are even willing to give at the level of a tithe. If we evangelical christians in America just gave 10%, we could add 85.5 billion dollars to the Great Commission annually. That is enough to feed, medicate and evangelize the entire third world. We have it, it's not an issue of having it.

    This is what Jesus says about investing: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures." It's not a suggestion, by the way, it's a command. "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth wher emoths..destroy" Moths don't eat the clothes we're wearing, they eat the clothes in our closets, which we aren't using, the things we tend to hoard up because of lack of trust in God. "But store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven...For where your treasure is, there your heart [belief] will also be"

    Behavior always follows belief. What do you really believe?

    We have so much.80% of the evangelical wealth in the world is in the US and Canada. This means that 9% of the believers in the world have a serious impact on funding the Great Commission--and you're included in that 9%. We hold 80% of the evangelical world's wealth. Less than 6% of our giving ever leaves this country to the other 90% of people, of believers. What we tell the guy whose starving is, "Sorry, we're spending it all, we're doing this all for ourselves." We've got 80% to fund this great Comission.

    The Chinese have two words for crisis: danger and opportunity. We have the most dangerous opporunity as believers ever, in the history of the world.

    "And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations and then the End will come." Wycliff Bible Translators figured out that all we have to do is give people the gospel of Luke and 40 stories and then we can start a church. We will have it translated for all the 7000 mother tongues by 2025.

    This series is not teaching you how to hoard money--it's teaching you how to use your money and do what Jesus said: Move it! Do you want to be a grace giver or a duty giver? Or do you want to be a "no giver"--do you want to be unengaged and live for this world alone? Are you a citizen or are you a servant? What will your checkbook show? "Your checkbook is a theological document that tells what and who you worship." (Billy Graham)

    What will you do with it? Which world are you living for? Some day you will give an account to Jesus. He is very clear it is Him he is talking about and it is us who he is talking to. He said: There will be accountability for it.


    Love in Jesus.
    Last edited by inJesus; 08-08-09 at 06:18 PM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    25
    Gender
    Female
    Post Likes
    ^All these things I shared are what God has been teaching me lately. :)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    25
    Gender
    Female
    Post Likes
    A verse I meant to include:

    "Honor the Lord with your capital and sufficiency [from righteous labors] and with the firstfruits of all your income; So shall your storage places be filled with plenty, and your vats shall be overflowing with new wine."

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    44
    Gender
    Male
    Post Likes
    Thank you all for the words. I do read all but sometimes lack time to reply in such detail.

    Another £1000 lifted.

    This time I don't feel as good about it, I guess because the struggle is getting me down.

    I know it's an achievement and today I've moved from the 'black' to the 'red'.

    Still a long way to go but I've thanked God for the the gifts he's given me to get past this.

    I know I can do it now it's just persistence.

    Someone's asked me to look after quite a large proportion of money recently (reasons I will not go into). It's interesting though that if you trust someone who is in debt they can offer the best rate of savings account you can find.

    For example debt has a higher rate of interest than any saving account. If someone asks you to look after some money it can be used to pay of debts and free up money form the debt interest that can be used to pay back the friend with a saving interest (say 3%). This would still be beneficial to yourself who could have 10% + on debt. Not sure if that makes sense but it takes a clean heart for it to work. It'll only work on flexible debt as well and has risks to be considered. For example us must be able to ensure you can give back all the money when ever it's needed. Luckily I've been trusted with such a scenario and like a good steward will use the benefits of this wisely and justly. I know some may frown on this maybe because I'm not explaining it correctly.

    I'm keeping a record of tithe I owe and whilst in mounts up I know it's interest free. So I'll replay that with a joyful heat knowing that although I've borrowed it at least in some way it's been biblical in the sense that I'm paying of my debt whilst borrowing from God at 0% (0% is the way money was to be lent in scripture right?)

    Sorry if this has been hard to follow it's just a spill out of thoughts really.

    Whilst it's easy to criticise as Paul says every man should do what he is sure is right. I'm sure I'm doing the right thing and my actions are based on prayers.

    If you're going through a similar struggle I advise you to seek Gods will.

    Peace in Christ.
    Doesn’t God have to exist by necessity in order to have something in the first place?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    461
    Gender
    Male
    Post Likes
    i aint saying to or not to pay your tithe. i know the bible says if you dont pay you are robbing God. but what i wanna say is this...

    Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
    Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
    Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
    Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
    Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

    in 5:2 it says he kept back a certian part. before you stop paying you NEED to seek his face on this. what does he want. what does he want you to do. God is all or nothing at all. dont keep back from God. you mentioned he has richly blessed you. the bible says obedience before sacrifice. he desires a deep relationship and disobedience is what got man in the mess its in now(adams fall). if you hold back a portion from God(the bible says God is our portion) he may hold back some of the blessings that he wants to give to you. do you feel condemnation for your debt? does the Holy spirit condemn us? i think maybe the enemy is wispering in your ear. seek him.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    44
    Gender
    Male
    Post Likes
    Well I'm I was in debt before I became a Christian and to be honest it was because of a break down in a relationship. I don't feel condemned as such just burdened even though I walk with God.

    I know what you're saying but I think you're wrong.

    I don't think God will strike me down or look unfavourably on me because of what I'm doing. He know's how hard I'm work at this.

    My previous life is causing me enough suffering as is but I keep on trying to push on.

    I'll pay back my tithe if God is willing.
    Doesn’t God have to exist by necessity in order to have something in the first place?

Topic Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Tithe
    By Anglican in forum Poetry
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-25-11, 08:33 PM
  2. Rethinking the tithe
    By jiggyfly in forum Bible Study
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: 09-26-08, 02:16 PM
  3. Christians Stopping Crime
    By finorg in forum Testimonials
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-10-04, 04:01 PM

Participants: 18

About us

Welcome to Talk Jesus Forums! If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. You will need to register before you can post. Our Purpose: spread the Good News to the ends of the Earth [Mark 16:15]. We're also here to edify the church [Ephesians 4:11-12]. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. We love you and glad you are here!

 

ask & you shall receive...

Please feel comfortable and ask your questions freely in the appropriate forum. As a community, we will help you find the answers about Jesus / GOD, Bible, general life questions and so forth. We're here to support you and each other.

 

faq forum etiquette surprise me!

 

the evidence topical studies
let's socialize
our facebook friends