To the person who started this thread, if your intention was to kill yourself, please don't do it. There are answers, you just may not see them today. God is there and He will help you and He will strenghten you.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

To the ones that have sinned or think they may sin and are worried that they may die, if you are born in spirit, God will tell you immediately that you have done wrong, so don't wait a second, just repent imediately, and ask God for forgiveness. So if you so happened to die a minute later, you will be saved because you have acknowleged the sin and you have repented to our Father in Heaven, through our Lord Jesus Christ. If you have that daily relationship with God, this will not be hard to do, as God will be on your mind all day.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(Deu 11:13) And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
(Jos 22:5) But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Please remember the person that was being crucified with Jesus, he repented and Jesus told him, he was saved.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Now the question, if one is still sinning, either they do not have that relationship with God daily, or they need to ask themselves, are they born in spirit. If one has both, I just cannot see one deliberately sinning, it just cannot happen. Sinning deliberately, like committing adultery for example, is normally a planned sin. If one is going to commit adultery, a Christian will know it's wrong, but you still plan to drive all that way to that persons house, which takes time, so you are planning this and you continue on with it. Then you have sinned against God. If one is born in spirit, I personally think, between point A and point B, God will talk to you during that journey, to stop you going ahead with that sin, through the Holy Spirit.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Another example, I was told this weekend a pastor at a certain church, went out and killed someone? This was planned, you just don't go out and kill someone? I just wonder who and what these people are being taught out there.

We need to ask God to change us, and that process can be very painful and will take time. No one can get rid of unclean habits overnight. But if we have God in our life and have that daily relationship with Him, He can help us:

Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Luk 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Originally Posted by Chad

In order to receive forgiveness, you must confess your sins and be forgiven. That is how GOD operates. The forgivness is there waiting for you. It does not come to you automatically if you do not confess your sins and ask for forgiveness in Jesus' name.

Sin cannot enter Heaven either.

You show me Scripture that says GOD forgives us automatically without us asking for forgiveness. This makes no sense. I may as well not ask for forgiveness ever again anytime I sin, right???

Your sins are already forgiven because they are covered by the blood of Christ. You are adding to the covenant. You are saying that you need Jesus + constantly making sure you keep track of every sin and asking God to forgive it. I'm pretty sure the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that Christ is enough. Christ is it 100%.

That's a bold statement to make that Chad is adding to the covenant brother Jculver. I doubt Chad is adding to the covenant. He asked you for scripture, so it's best to provide it if you have it brother.

If we think about it, Chad is correct.

Romans 14:11
For it is written: “ As I live, says the LORD,Every knee shall bow to Me,And every tongue shall confess to God.”

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

James 5:13-20
Meeting Specific Needs

13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.
Bring Back the Erring One

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

If we are overcomers in Jesus, we will continue to confess each and every sin to God. If we can't remember what we did, which is highly unlikely, God will let us know in time.

Confession of sin, come from confession of what Jesus did for us, for Jesus is our confession, like you said.

God bless you

Originally Posted by jculver

Your sins are already forgiven because they are covered by the blood of Christ. You are adding to the covenant. You are saying that you need Jesus + constantly making sure you keep track of every sin and asking God to forgive it. I'm pretty sure the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that Christ is enough. Christ is it 100%.

You still did not provide me Scripture. And no, I am not adding to the covenant. I preach truth. What about you?

So tell me, if you sin today, you won't ask GOD to forgive and you'll just go to bed fine?

jculver, john wrote in 1 john that if we do sin we have an advocate on our behalf and that being jesus christ our lord. why would john have written such a thing if we can just keep on sinning and never ask forgiveness. not to mention the many times that god chastened israel and did not let up until they repented.

our lord is very merciful and loving but we have to look into our own hearts and allow the spirit to show us our sin that we can repent and ask forgiveness for. even peter when he denied christ to the public fell and repented of his sin.

Brother ushalk, great response. The mention of Peter's denial and repentance is a great example! Thank you.

Also brother jculver, in another thread you expressed your walking away from GOD, and another thread returning to Him. Have you asked Him for forgiveness? I cannot imagine you came back to the Lord as if everything was ok and you did nothing wrong.

First I would like to say something about the article I posted, and then I will go through each reply as they have come, and explain my belief.

John Macarthur is not just some mediocre article writer. He has spent more time in scripture than most people alive today. He knows the original languages , and (feel free to look this up) has spent at least 30-40 hours a week studying scripture for the passed 40+ years.

This is not a minority view I hold. Many Christians hold this view exactly as I do. The idea that you can look at an article written by a true man of God, who has studied, and toiled his whole life in the word of God, and just call it "false" without providing any scripture (you still have not) is not going to sway my opinion.

Originally Posted by teraside

That's a bold statement to make that Chad is adding to the covenant brother Jculver. I doubt Chad is adding to the covenant. He asked you for scripture, so it's best to provide it if you have it brother.

If we think about it, Chad is correct.

Romans 14:11
For it is written: “ As I live, says the LORD,Every knee shall bow to Me,And every tongue shall confess to God.”

This scripture still does indicate that if we fail to confess the sin is unforgiven. It simply does not say that.

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

The topic does not involve saying you have no sin, the topic is the requirement of confession for forgiveness. 1 John 1:8-10 is speaking specifically about those who say "I have not sinned since I became a Christian" when it is taken in context.

I'm not saying I have no sin. I don't think anyone here is making that argument. That is what the topic of that verse is. See the very bottom of this post for further explanation.

James 5:13-20
Meeting Specific Needs

13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.
Bring Back the Erring One

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

I don't see anything in that scripture that indicates that confession is required for the forgiveness of that sin.

These scriptures further indicate that God will chasten you for your sins as a Christian, not Damn you.Regardless of confession. He will chasten you until you repent. These verses are clearly talking about people that God is chastening, as they are "sick" and not damned.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Beautiful scripture, but again I don't see it indicating that confession is required for the forgiveness of sin.

If we are overcomers in Jesus, we will continue to confess each and every sin to God. If we can't remember what we did, which is highly unlikely, God will let us know in time.

Confession of sin, come from confession of what Jesus did for us, for Jesus is our confession, like you said.

God bless you

I have yet to see any specific piece of scripture that indicates this theology. I understand your view, and thank you for the scriptural references, but I do not feel they have indicated to me what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Chad

You still did not provide me Scripture. And no, I am not adding to the covenant. I preach truth. What about you?

So tell me, if you sin today, you won't ask GOD to forgive and you'll just go to bed fine?

No I would not go to bed fine. I would confess my sin if I had knowledge of it, and thank God for the opportunity. I also asked for scripture to back your view and have yet to be presented with any. None of the three scriptures you posted say anything about confession being required for forgiveness.

Originally Posted by ushalk

jculver, john wrote in 1 john that if we do sin we have an advocate on our behalf and that being jesus christ our lord. why would john have written such a thing if we can just keep on sinning and never ask forgiveness. not to mention the many times that god chastened israel and did not let up until they repented.

our lord is very merciful and loving but we have to look into our own hearts and allow the spirit to show us our sin that we can repent and ask forgiveness for. even peter when he denied christ to the public fell and repented of his sin.

Notice exactly what you said is correct. God will chasten you for your sins as a Christian, not Damn you. We were saved from that by Jesus Christ and him alone. See above for my reply to using 1 John as an argument for this. Please also see the article I have posted at the bottom of this post. Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

Originally Posted by Chad

Brother ushalk, great response. The mention of Peter's denial and repentance is a great example! Thank you.

Also brother jculver, in another thread you expressed your walking away from GOD, and another thread returning to Him. Have you asked Him for forgiveness? I cannot imagine you came back to the Lord as if everything was ok and you did nothing wrong.

Of course I would not continue on as I was. Please see the reply I leave in that thread specifically for that specific topic.

In Summary

I would just like to bring a few situations to light. Lets say you were somewhere, and you witnessed something that caused you to sin in your mind. Say a billboard that had some sort of risque advertisement, that you could not avoid seeing. Say you sin mentally from seeing this. Say you are then immediately hit by a car and die before a chance to confess. What then? Hell because you didn't have a chance to confess it?

Say you sin without knowing (there are many sins you could perform and not realize it right away). You then die before a chance to realize and confess the sin. God sends you to hell?

This theology that you are backing is largely held by the catholic church. This is EXACTLY why they have invented the idea of purgatory and prayers for the dead. That is exactly why, for just these scenarios I am discussing.

Now, would a Christian confess his or her sin if able? Absolutely. They will be driven and pulled and yanked by the spirit to do so and eventually they will. If a person hit's a moment of weakness and kills themselves, and they are a Christian who has taken away their opportunity to repent in this life, that sin is still covered by the blood of Christ.

Will this occurrence happen often? No. If ever at all. The point I am making is that a person does not go to hell for suicide because the sin goes unconfessed, they would go because that sin indicates they were never a Christian in the first place. I have not seen ANY scripture to back the claim that sins must be confessed to be forgiven. A true Christian will be driven to confess, and will as often as possible, but the idea that God would not forgive a sin we didn't realize, or a sin we didn't confess after living our lives as much for him as possible is not backed by any of the scriptures posted thus far.

I'll end with scriptures that indicate exactly how broad God's forgiveness is.

John 3-16
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

What is Salvation? Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone. There are no strings attached. Whoever believes in him is not condemned. A believer will be a new creation, and that creation will confess his/her sins, but if that creation for some reason misses one, doesn't realize one, NOTHING indicates ANYWHERE that that sin goes unforgiven.


I have been accused of not posting scripture to back my view. I already posted this so I'll go ahead and do it again.

Colossians 2:13-14
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

All trespasses. This is not somehow exclusive to sins we confess.

Ephesians 2:13

13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Near through the blood of Christ, not through the blood of Christ + confession.


I really don't think I need to go on. The New Testament CONSTANTLY talks about how sufficient Christ's sacrifice is for our reconciliation with God. Constantly. That is the theme of all 4 Gospels.



Finally

I will post another article to respond more clearly to ushalk and Teraside in their query of 1 John.


If We Confess Our Sins

by
John MacArthur
All Rights Reserved

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive
us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness – 1 John 1:9.

That is one of the first verses many new Christians memorize–and rightly so. It holds forth the comforting promise of forgiveness and cleansing for all of us who have struggled with guilt in this sin-stained world. Yet there are some today who, because they fail to comprehend the extent of divine forgiveness, deny the clear teaching of 1 John 1:9 and teach other to do the same. They say that to pray for forgiveness reveals unbelief. After all, a healthy Christian doesn’t experience guilt because he understands Christ’s total forgiveness. Why seek forgiveness when you already have it?

However, their guilt-free brand of Christianity not only burdens guilty people with more guilt, but also strips away the only means to alleviate the guilt of sin–confession. Rather than helping Christians draw near to God, they are reinforcing the barrier of sin that interrupts their relationship with God. But that’s not the end of the story.

The Bible clearly teaches that Christians should seek forgiveness. Consider this:

In each one of the penitential psalms (Pss. 6; 32; 38; 51; 102; 130; 143), the psalmist is demonstrating the heart of a justified believer when he seeks forgiveness. In each case the psalmist is already a believer, fully forgiven.

In the gospels, Christ taught believers to ask the Father to forgive their sins (Matt. 6:12; Mark 11:25; Luke 11:4). Some of those to whom He spoke were already born again.

In 1 John 1, the verb tenses show that confession and forgiveness should be a continuous experience. Verse 7 literally reads, "The blood of Jesus His Son keeps cleansing us from all sin," and verse 9 likewise says, "If we are continually confessing our sins." Those to whom John wrote were already fully forgiven believers (cf. 5:13).

But the question remains: Why are you supposed to seek God’s forgiveness if He has already justified you? If justification takes care of sin past, present, and future, so there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ (Rom. 8:1), why pray for forgiveness? Aren’t you praying for something that is already yours?

The answer is that divine forgiveness has two aspects. One is the judicial forgiveness God grants as Judge. It’s the forgiveness God purchased for you by Christ’s atonement for your sin. That kind of forgiveness frees you from any threat of eternal condemnation. It is the forgiveness of justification. Such pardon is immediately complete–you’ll never need to seek it again.

The other is a parental forgiveness God grants as your Father. He is grieved when His children sin. The forgiveness of justification takes care of judicial guilt, but it does not nullify His fatherly displeasure over your sin. He chastens those whom He loves, for their good (Heb. 12:5-11).

Let me show you the difference:

Judicial forgiveness deals with sin’s penalty–parental forgiveness deals with sin’s consequences.

Judicial forgiveness frees us from the condemnation of the righteous, omniscient Judge whom we have wronged–parental forgiveness sets things right with a grieving and displeased but loving Father.

Judicial forgiveness provides an unshakeable standing before the throne of divine judgment–parental forgiveness deals with the state of our sanctification at any given moment and is dispensed from a throne of divine grace.

So the forgiveness Christians are supposed to seek in their daily walk is not pardon from an angry Judge, but mercy from a grieved Father.

Some object to the idea that God could ever be displeased with His own children. They ask: Can our once-and-for-all forgiven sins ever provoke divine displeasure? The answer is a resounding "Yes." In fact, it is because of God’s righteous displeasure over your sin that He refuses to leave you the way you are–sinful.

In a very practical sense, God’s indignation over your daily sins demonstrates His love for you. That’s the thought of Hebrews 12:5-11 where some form of the word discipline is used seven times. Divine displeasure over your sin brings discipline, reproof, and scourging. That’s a good thing, not only because it helps rid your life of sin, but it also shows His love for you and confirms your relationship to Him–"those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives" (v. 6).

God’s discipline–sometimes involving punishment for disobedience–is painful; no one will argue with that. But you must remember: He is causing you to share in His holiness (v. 10); He is training you (v. 11); He is producing in you the "peaceful fruit of righteousness" (v. 11). So when you have sinned, humble yourself, confess your sin, and submit to His loving discipline.

Remorse over sin, daily confession, and a continual attitude of repentance are marks of a healthy Christian life. What’s the benefit? Look again at 1 John 1:9: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (italics added). Forgiveness and cleansing–those promises are as refreshing to the sinner as a cold drink of water to a thirsty man.

David testified to the power of confession in Psalm 32: "When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; my vitality was drained away as with the fever heat of summer…I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I did not hide; I said, "I will confess my sin to the Lord"; and You forgave the guilt of my sin" (vv. 4-5). The guilt of David’s sin affected him physically–he found relief only through full confession.

We’ve already discussed the difference between judicial and parental forgiveness–the latter is in view in 1 John 1:9. It is a subjective, relational kind of forgiveness. It is the restoration to a place of blessing in the eyes of a displeased father. Similarly, the cleansing of 1 John 1:9 doesn’t refer to regeneration. Rather, it is a spiritual washing to rid you of the defilement caused by sin in your daily walk. The verse is speaking of an ongoing pardon and purification from sin, not the cleansing and forgiveness of salvation.

The pardon of justification and the washing of regeneration do not eliminate the need for you to deal with the subjective reality of sin in your life. If you entertain such an idea, you will either be consumed by your guilt or you will steel yourself against the pangs of your conscience–either reaction will separate you from a loving Father.

Instead, keep confessing your sins; seek God’s forgiveness and cleansing daily. As the verse says, He is faithful to Himself to forgive your sins and He is just, having already made full atonement for your sins through the sacrifice of His beloved Son. When you confess your sins, you are restored by a loving Father who delights to shower the brokenhearted and repentant with His mercy and compassion.

I have not seen ANY scripture to back the claim that sins must be confessed to be forgiven.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive
us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness – 1 John 1:9

What does that scripture say then?

Your post is so long that frankly I get irritated with it, no offense to you. I can't respond to you in a normal manner, because you are talking to everyone at once.

Overload of information..........my system is crashing....lol,

God bless you brother. I read a piece of the John Mcarthur piece, but to comment on your first part, I agree he is a man of God and I've enjoyed reading some of his books, I can't remember the titles at present, but they were good.

proverbs 28:13- He that conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he that confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

there are many verses that tell us that we have to acknowledge our sins and repent of them. we often do not want to do this because of the shame and pride that we have as to what people will say or think of us. however the longer we wait the more sins we commit and the more away from the lord we become.

but the word of god is the word of god. we cant just read for what we want it to say. it does not work that way. we must repent and that is the way that it is.

Originally Posted by ushalk

proverbs 28:13- He that conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he that confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

there are many verses that tell us that we have to acknowledge our sins and repent of them. we often do not want to do this because of the shame and pride that we have as to what people will say or think of us. however the longer we wait the more sins we commit and the more away from the lord we become.

but the word of god is the word of god. we cant just read for what we want it to say. it does not work that way. we must repent and that is the way that it is.

Good response brother. I think you pretty much nailed it on the head here with the Scripture quoted.

I'm curious brother jculver, when you sin do you not ask GOD for forgiveness? Do you go on as if your automatically forgiven without asking for it? What if your friend has done you wrong? Do you expect him or her to ask you for forgiveness or not? I would.

Are you going to tell me that you'll just show up in Heaven, face Jesus in His presence and not be concerned about all your sins that you did not ask for forgiveness for?