Results 1 to 4 of 4
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    185
    Gender
    Male
    Post Likes

    Fables of the End Times

    Fables of the End Times

    In four places Paul warns against believing in fables, which are false
    doctrines concerning prophecy about the end times. I Timothy 1: 4, I
    Timothy 4: 7, II Timothy 4: 4 and Titus 1: 14 all warn about accepting
    fables, which are man made prophecies about what is going to happen in the
    end times.

    "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned
    unto fables.' II Timothy 4: 4

    "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto
    you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of
    his majesty." II Peter 1: 16

    The dispensationalist teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture of the
    dispensationalist church is such a fable.

    Yet the fable of the pre-tribulation rapture of the dispensationalist church is only a small part
    of the reason why the dispensationalist doctrine is another Gospel (Galatians 1: 6-9). This man made
    theology contradicts the teachings of Paul from the revelation given to him by the risen Christ (Acts 26: 14-17). Dispensationalism does not acknowledge the transformation of physical Israel to the spiritual house of I Peter 2: 5, 9 (II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6). Physical Israel was transformed, and those of physical Israel who rejected that transformation were no longer a people of God; they were no longer the elect, but all those of Israel reborn in Christ (John 3: 1-7) are now the elect of God.

    Dispensationalism does not acknowledge Romans 11: 17,19, 20, on those of physical Israel in unbelief being broken off, Romans 9: 6-8, Romans 2: 17-24, 28-29, or Galatians 4: 25-26, and for these reasons is another Gospel. Dispensationalism says God now has two different peoples, all physical Israel and the church, a teaching that runs head on into what Christ says in John 10: 16, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

    The fables about the end time scenario have distorted the understanding of what the tribulation as a definite period of time is all about.

    On this topic of God giving those in false doctrines over to their doctrines, II Thessalonians 2: 10-12,
    "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

    Those who do not have a love of the truth that they could be saved but are fixated in their false doctrines, or in strong delusion, are, in effect, in captivity to their false doctrines.

    Just as the people of physical Israel in the time of Jeremiah (whose ministry was from about 626 BC to 586 BC) were sent into literal captivity in Babylon, so the people in the timeline of the New Covenant at the time of the end are sent into spiritual captivity to their own false doctrines. The Great Tribulation of Matthew 24: 21 is judgment by God for being in false doctrines, and that judgment consists of being brought into captivity to spiritual Babylon, or Christianity in false doctrines taught by the huge number of false prophets (Matthew 24: 11).

    Look at Matthew 24: 29-30: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days
    shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the
    stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then
    shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man
    coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

    Now wait a minute. Matthew 24: 29 says that after the tribulation, then
    will the heavens be shaken. The question then becomes, what is the tribulation?
    The dispensationalist end time scenario says the tribulation is a seven
    year period of great distress due to frightening earth changes and other plagues which
    hinder, terrorize and kill many people. So, to avoid the tribulation, the man made
    theology of John Darby, C.I. Scofield, Lewis S. Chafer and many
    contemporary Christian celebrities following them say that the church will
    be raptured off the earth to escape this horrible period at the time of the
    age.

    Within the man made theology of Darby and others the pre-tribulation
    rapture was postulated - taught without Biblical support - to take the church
    off the earth during the tribulation when God turns to deal with physical Israel,
    a period Darby originally said was to be a return to the dispensation of law for the Jews.
    Since the Christian church, Darby believed, would not accept a return to the dispensation of law,
    it had to be raptured from the earth before the tribulation begins.

    Daniel 12: 1 says "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great
    prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a
    time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that
    same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that
    shall be found written in the book."

    Zephaniah 1: 14-17 says "The great day of the LORD is near, it is
    near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the
    mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
    15.That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of
    wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of
    clouds and thick darkness,
    16.A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and
    against the high towers.
    17.And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind
    men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall
    be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung."

    Then, Isaiah 26: 20-21 says "Come, my people, enter thou into thy
    chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a
    little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    21. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the
    inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall
    disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

    Indignation is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 2195, za-am, from 2194, froth at the mouth, figuratively. Number 2194 is said to mean "to be enraged, abhor, abominable,angry, have indignation." The Lord has indignation toward the disobedience of those claiming to be his people and he judges them for that disobedience.

    The time of trouble in Daniel 12: 1, the day of wrath of Zephaniah 1:
    15, and the indignation of Isaiah 26: 20 are all about the judgment of
    the Lord on those claiming to be his people because of their failure
    to obey his commandments, by their specific sins and their following
    of false doctrines. The Great Tribulation of Matthew 24: 21 is about
    the same period of judgment by the Lord.

    Paul in I Corinthians 10: 11 says "Now all these things happened unto
    them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom
    the ends of the world are come."

    The falling away from obedience to the commandments and truth of the
    Lord shown by Jeremiah, which resulted in judgment as a literal
    captivity of physical Israel to Babylon can be seen to be re-enacted
    toward the end during the period of the New Covenant.

    Christians are predicted to fall away from the truth into false doctrines by II
    Thessalonians 2: 2-3, Luke 13: 21, Matthew 24: 11, I Timothy 4: 1, II
    Timothy 3: 1-9, II Timothy 3: 13 and a few other texts. Matthew 24:
    11, Revelation 13: 11-18 and II Peter 2: 1 say that many false prophets were to arise and deceive
    many. Revelation 13: 11-18, on the second beast, is about a metaphoric
    concept which has been called the False Prophet who represents many
    false prophets.

    Jeremiah 23: 1-2, 31-32 and Jeremiah 29: 8-10 give the reason why God judged physical
    Israel in the time of the Babylon captivity in about 586 BC.

    Jeremiah 23: 1-2 says "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD." Scattered is not limited to dispersing the people of physical Israel over the earth, though that also happened to some extent. Scattering also refers to diminishing the spiritual power of physical Israel, as in Daniel 12: 7, which talks about scattering the power of the holy people.

    Then God in Jeremiah 23: 31-32 says "Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."

    "For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
    9. For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.
    10. For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place." Jeremiah 29: 8-10

    Physical Israel was judged and began to be sent into a literal Babylonian captivity in about 586 BC. After this period of seventy years, under Ezra, and Nehemiah and Zerubbabel many of physical Israel
    returned to Jerusalem, and the wall and temple were rebuilt. A remnant of Israel, led by Ezra, Nehemiah and Zerubbabel and some others was allowed by God to restore physical Israel at that time. This restoration by a remnant can be seen as an example (I Corinthians 10: 11) for the work of Christ in an end time remnant (Revelation 12: 15-17) within a battle between the remnant who are led by Christ and the Dragon, who leads the world. The world is in the church in false doctrines.

    In Jeremiah 50 and 51, Jeremiah the prophet uses the literal captivity in Babylon - of seventy years - as a metaphoric concept called Babylon. Israel is predicted to be in captivity to what is called Babylon though this Babylon in Jeremiah 50 and 51 is not the literal and physical Babylon in the Near East.

    "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace....Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks." Jeremiah 50: 6, 8

    God calls his people out of Babylon as a metaphoric concept for being in false doctrines.

    Jeremiah 51: 6 again calls God's people out of metaphoric Babylon. "Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence."

    The metaphoric concept called Babylon begins to take on meanings additional to the people claiming to be of God being in false doctrines. Babylon also becomes, in part, the evil and corruption of the world. "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2: 16 "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3: 5 In taking on that which is in the world, the Christian church leans to man's own understanding and does not rise up spiritually out of the flesh.

    Jeremiah 51: 9 says "We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies."

    "And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah." Jeremiah 61: 64

    In the New Covenant timeline the falling away from obedience to the doctrines given by the Lord is repeated. II Thessalonians 2: 2-3, Luke 13: 21, Matthew 24: 11 and other texts predict a falling away from sound doctrine. And the metaphorical concept called Babylon is repeated for the Christian church. This is in Revelation 17 and 18. Revelation 17 opens the discussion of metaphoric Babylon in our time in talking about "Mystery Babylon, the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth." Babylon is, first of all, religion in apostasy. It is the Christian church in false doctrines to which it is in captivity.

    Revelation 18: 4 repeats Jeremiah 51:6, in calling God's people out of Babylon. "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

    Then, there is the interesting statement in Revelation 18: 23, "And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

    The light of a candle refers to Christ's light (John 8: 12). But in Matthew 5: 14 Christ says "Ye are the light of the world." Before falling away into false doctrines, Christians were the light of the world.

    "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men." Matthew 5: 13

    "Savour" is from the Greek word moraino, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 3471, which is from Number 3474, moros, "dull, or stupid." Our English word moron comes from moros. Having the light of Christ, and being the salt of the earth, is a state of the spirit and mind which is the opposite of being dull or stupid. In the falling away (II Thessalonians 2: 3) those who still claim to be the people of God are also given over to a state of cognitive dysfunction or dumbness.

    In Revelation 18: 23 the voice of the bridegroom and the bride is heard no more in Babylon, the metaphoric concept for being in false doctrines and not having the mind of Christ or his light, and including the corruption of the world, which is partly brought on because the Christians have lost their light and their savour. The bride of Christ does not speak within Babylon because the elect are not in Babylon.

    The voice of the bridegroom is heard no more in Babylon, within the camp, because Christ is out in the metaphoric wilderness, outside the camp (Hebrews 13: 13), outside of Babylon. Christ is in the wilderness where in Revelation 12: 6, 14 the metaphoric woman flees. In Revelation 12: 15 the serpent casts out a flood from his mouth to carry away the metaphoric woman and her seed the remnant. But in Revelation 12: 17 the remnant is said to keep the commandments of God and to have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Keeping the commandments of God does not mean following the ceremonial law, but it means obeying Christ by following his doctrines. Since the remnant in the wilderness has the testimony of Christ, Christ speaks truth into their spirits and minds. And they have ears to hear him.

    The tribulation is not the only thing end time Bible prophecy says is to
    occur. Paul says in II Thessalonians 2; 3-4 that "Let no man deceive you by
    any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
    first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that
    is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing
    himself that he is God."

    This has been made into another fable, that the one man super anti-Christ
    figure will brake his treaty with the nation of Israel and will literally
    come and desecrate the newly re-built temple in Jerusalem, by literally
    sitting in it. In the world of fables most prophecy has to play out in a
    literal way; the language of metaphor is not understood by those who make
    up the fables.

    The temple is the Christian believer in I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I
    Corinthians 6:19, and a concept called the man of sin is predicted to
    occupy, or sit, in the hearts of those who claim to belong to Jesus Christ.
    Last edited by tulsa 2011; 06-15-13 at 08:27 AM.

  2. Puddleglum liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    284
    Gender
    Female
    Post Likes
    So do you still believe that the Tribulation and the Rapture will occur in the future? Do you believe that the Rapture will take place after the Tribulation?

    I on the other hand do not believe the Tribulation will occur in the future. I believe it occurred in the time period between 65 and 70 A.D. The Rapture is still in the future, but when that happens that will be the end of time.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Missour
    Posts
    784
    Gender
    Male
    Post Likes
    Tulsa: Very well explained ! I am surprised that you are not a follower od Darby. So I say great, you think for your self and not follow the flock of sheep.

    Here is something else my wife and I think about. When preached from the pulpit that believers wont go through the tribulation but be raptured first; we are setting up believers not to expect very difficult times. In reality we need to clearly say that no matter if we have to stand up and be killed for our trust in Jesus Christ, we as Christ followers we should expect suffering. If believers believe the false teaching that we will be taken before the tribulation then when believers go into real tribulation as we have never seen before, many will fall away because of the false teaching that we will be taken and not suffer. People want an easy soft promise of no suffering, that is "easy" to believe as well. Blessings tulsa !


    farout

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    185
    Gender
    Male
    Post Likes
    "Tulsa: Very well explained ! I am surprised that you are not a follower of Darby."

    When I was a teenager I was a member of a Southern Baptist Church. But at that time not all Southern Baptist leaders and preachers were followers of Darby or dispensationalism. I remember the preacher at the time I went to church preaching about things which I later knew to be Calvinist and not dispensationalist. I do not remember him ever talking about a pre-tribulation rapture or about Jewish supremacy. There were dispensationalists in the Southern Baptist Convention back then, such as W. A. Criswell and many others. Yet there were Southern Baptist preachers and leaders who were like George W. Truett of a somewhat earlier era, who was clearly not a dispensationalist. In the sixties and afterward Crisswell and others led a movement to establish dispensationalism as the theology of the Convention, though they sometimes called it "fundamentalism."

    Then, in the seventies when I became a Christian I came on my own and not through a church. So, when I was learning scripture I was not exposed to a dispensatrionalist influence, though I sometimes listened to them on the radio. Its hard for me to understand the allure of that theology, though I can see how its followers somehow think that their salvation is in physical Israel and not in Jesus Christ alone.

    There is something else that influenced me in the late seventies and early eighties, and that was the books of Francis Schaeffer. Schaeffer was Reformed, but did not teach on five point Calvinism. He certainly was not a dispensationalist.
    Last edited by tulsa 2011; 06-15-13 at 05:51 PM.

Topic Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. End Times?
    By hadirfuss in forum Polls
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 06-26-14, 10:56 PM
  2. Needs of the Times
    By Fragrant Grace in forum Sermons
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-26-13, 11:14 PM
  3. Are we in the end times?
    By ArmyWife08 in forum Counseling
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-22-11, 08:53 PM
  4. three times seven
    By ladylovesJesus in forum Jokes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-06-06, 06:07 AM
  5. Some Times
    By craw2006 in forum Poetry
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-25-06, 01:43 PM

Participants: 2

About us

Welcome to Talk Jesus Forums! If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. You will need to register before you can post. Our Purpose: spread the Good News to the ends of the Earth [Mark 16:15]. We're also here to edify the church [Ephesians 4:11-12]. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. We love you and glad you are here!

 

ask & you shall receive...

Please feel comfortable and ask your questions freely in the appropriate forum. As a community, we will help you find the answers about Jesus / GOD, Bible, general life questions and so forth. We're here to support you and each other.

 

faq forum etiquette surprise me!

 

the evidence topical studies
let's socialize
our facebook friends