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  1. #1
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    Rapture: Before or After?

    Will the rapture happen before or after the tribulation period?

    I was thinking it was before, but then I heard a sermon that made me think twice. In many of the examples of God's wrath in the Bible, God led His people through suffering, not take them out of it. Like Noah, or Job, or the Hebrews and Moses... God did not take them out of the suffering, He kept them safe during it. So wouldn't the same be true for the second coming of Christ?
    Audrey Nicole

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    Depends on what you mean by Tribulation (you'll have to see my thread: Pre Scroll rapture); but that's for another time.
    The rapture and 2nd coming our 2 destinct events seperate from each other; both in design, motive, and purpose. Look at the 'fanfare' involved in each: rapture is just Michael & Jesus, and a trumpet - steath in nature. Very fast and efficient. The 2nd coming, on the other hand... - well you can just imagine. Set off the fireworks, for the Lord of Lords is going to clean house.

    Ask yourself the BIG Q - What purpose is there of God for designing such an event?! - a 'full-blown, 'full scale' removal of His church from the earth. Why would He do such a thing? God doesn't do things just for the fun of it, or to get a 'kick' out of it. God is not vain.

    If the church were still here, then why the need for the replacement 'Great Commision' team: 144,000, 2 witnesses, and at least 1 angel (Rev14:6)
    No where in all the Bible does it mention the church's prescence or protection from the judgements of God while still being present for them. It wasn't till the last 7 plagues that God made a distinction between His people and Egypt. For Israel, it was a lot easier for God to make that distinction because of geographical means. But with us; we are all intermingled through out the whole world. The only way to be protected from this geographical world wide event is a complete removal. Lot and Noah were 'removed' from the judgement site. - The main purpose of the rapture is an 'evacuation plan'.
    I also think that another reason for the rapture is so that God can make that distinction between His people and the rest of the world. Can you imagine if the church were to go, and suffer, the same judgements as the rest of humanity; how vain any witnessing would be -
    Expecting some one to come to Christ and still suffer the same torture. Why would anyone give their lives to Christ seeing that the punishment still continues even when becoming a christian. They would see that being a Christian didn't matter, that they both were doomed to destruction; and how this God treats His followers.
    The rapture would show that there was a way to get out from encountering His judgements, and that through that suffering would give their lives to Him with the hope of being united to Him just as all those who were RAPTURED.
    Last edited by ctsracing; 02-05-11 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #3
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    I hope I am wrong, but the Bible seems pretty clear to me that the "Rapture" will not occur until the very END of the world....after the Antichrist, after the Tribulation, after all the bad stuff, earthquakes, pestilences, famines, etc. etc.

    There is one or two verses that implies that it could be in the middle of the Tribulation...."after the Antichrist is revealed". I think it's in Daniel 12 if I remember right.

    A lot of people say that Christians are not to undergo the wrath of God-that's one reason they believe that the Rapture will be BEFORE the Tribulation. ....

    But the thing is....the Tribulation is not the wrath of God I don't think....the very End, when the world is destroyed "by the elements" (I think this is a nuclear bomb probably), and the unbelievers are thrown into the Lake of Fire....I think THIS is the "wrath of God". I think the Tribulation is merely the "testing" and the separation of the sheep and the goats....it is the time where we have to stand firm and hold fast to our Savior, Jesus Christ! Because Jesus said....those who endure TILL THE END will be saved.

    Just my opinion.

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    Originally Posted by SavedByHim View Post
    I hope I am wrong, but the Bible seems pretty clear to me that the "Rapture" will not occur until the very END of the world....after the Antichrist, after the Tribulation, after all the bad stuff, earthquakes, pestilences, famines, etc. etc.

    There is one or two verses that implies that it could be in the middle of the Tribulation...."after the Antichrist is revealed". I think it's in Daniel 12 if I remember right.

    A lot of people say that Christians are not to undergo the wrath of God-that's one reason they believe that the Rapture will be BEFORE the Tribulation. ....

    But the thing is....the Tribulation is not the wrath of God I don't think....the very End, when the world is destroyed "by the elements" (I think this is a nuclear bomb probably), and the unbelievers are thrown into the Lake of Fire....I think THIS is the "wrath of God". I think the Tribulation is merely the "testing" and the separation of the sheep and the goats....it is the time where we have to stand firm and hold fast to our Savior, Jesus Christ! Because Jesus said....those who endure TILL THE END will be saved.

    Just my opinion.
    I kind of agree with you too. This used to scare me too, thinking of going through all that chaos! But no need to be scared because the Bible teaches us many times that God will guide us through suffering. And especially if you relate it to Moses and the Hebrews and how God protected His people through that. Remember they put the blood of the lamb on the door frames and this protected them.

    "Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household… take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs."
    This seems to relate very closely:
    "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die...There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt, worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal." Then you will know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel.

    Hmmmm....
    Audrey Nicole

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    Originally Posted by ctsracing View Post
    Depends on what you mean by Tribulation (you'll have to see my thread: Pre Scroll rapture); but that's for another time.
    The rapture and 2nd coming our 2 destinct events seperate from each other; both in design, motive, and purpose. Look at the 'fanfare' involved in each: rapture is just Michael & Jesus, and a trumpet - steath in nature. Very fast and efficient. The 2nd coming, on the other hand... - well you can just imagine. Set off the fireworks, for the Lord of Lords is going to clean house.

    Ask yourself the BIG Q - What purpose is there of God for designing such an event?! - a 'full-blown, 'full scale' removal of His church from the earth. Why would He do such a thing? God doesn't do things just for the fun of it, or to get a 'kick' out of it. God is not vain.

    If the church were still here, then why the need for the replacement 'Great Commision' team: 144,000, 2 witnesses, and at least 1 angel (Rev14:6)
    No where in all the Bible does it mention the church's prescence or protection from the judgements of God while still being present for them. It wasn't till the last 7 plagues that God made a distinction between His people and Egypt. For Israel, it was a lot easier for God to make that distinction because of geographical means. But with us; we are all intermingled through out the whole world. The only way to be protected from this geographical world wide event is a complete removal. Lot and Noah were 'removed' from the judgement site. - The main purpose of the rapture is an 'evacuation plan'.
    I also think that another reason for the rapture is so that God can make that distinction between His people and the rest of the world. Can you imagine if the church were to go, and suffer, the same judgements as the rest of humanity; how vain any witnessing would be -
    Expecting some one to come to Christ and still suffer the same torture. Why would anyone give their lives to Christ seeing that the punishment still continues even when becoming a christian. They would see that being a Christian didn't matter, that they both were doomed to destruction; and how this God treats His followers.
    The rapture would show that there was a way to get out from encountering His judgements, and that through that suffering would give their lives to Him with the hope of being united to Him just as all those who were RAPTURED.

    So are you saying you think the rapture is before the 7 year tribulation period??
    Audrey Nicole

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    Fascinating topic Audrey

    Joel 2:30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, blood, fire and columns of smoke." Before the end of course. This is a verse that may lean towards nuclear war.

    I remember, years ago, studying eschatology. I ended up with a pre-tribulation, premillenial viewpoint. But, I am open on the subject.

    Paul does state in Thessalonians that the antichrist must first be revealed.

    Also, there is a great falling away from the church in the end times.

    No doubt it will get tougher as we go, but God also pours out His love more.

    Bring it on, we cannot lose.

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    Originally Posted by AudreyNicole View Post
    So are you saying you think the rapture is before the 7 year tribulation period??
    Read my view point in the 'Pre-scroll rapture' thread in this 'Bible Study Hall' section. - No where in the Bible is it stated that the Tribulation consumes the whole 7 yr. period - in fact, the 7yr. period is mentioned no where else except in Daniel 9. All other verses have to deal with the 3.5 yr (half 7 yr. period) and the 'Abomination that causes Desolation'. It is my interpretation of scripture that the rapture will happen before Jesus opens up the Scroll in Rev. 5; which I believe the 'Abomination that causes Desolation' act is the catalyst for Jesus to open up the Scroll.

    If the Rapture is part of the 2nd coming sequence, then this is how it would play out:
    Jesus mounts His white horse along with the hosts of heaven. They approach earth to 'clean house'. When they get to the clouds, all christians are lifted off the face of the earth to meet Him in the air (dead 1st, then all us cristians who are alive). We greet, and then: either go seperate ways (us to heaven - Jesus to earth to 'clean house') or, immediately do an 'about face' and join Jesus in Armageddon. -I'm sorry, but that sounds ridiculous to me and doesn't fit the personality of our God.
    Last edited by ctsracing; 02-06-11 at 01:56 PM.

  8. #8
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    ...after the AC is revealed is located in II Thess 2:2
    Edit: David777 answered this already. How did I miss reading that?
    Last edited by ctsracing; 02-06-11 at 01:28 PM.

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    I just want to add that God did not protect Lot by having him stay at Sodom and then destroy the rest of Sodom with Lot's house being the last (and only) house standing. God completely removed him geographically from the judgement site

    God did not have provide a vortex in the flood waters so that
    noah, family, and animals would be safe while the rest of earth is 'cleansed'. He has them completely 'rise above' the judgement site.

    Israel (in Goshen) was already seperated geographically; much different than today when you have the 'wheat & tares' groing together.

    Understand that the Scroll isn't just about the judgement of God; it is the dismantling of the earth also, to bring in the new earth and the new Jerusalem. The Scroll could be considered to be the Earth's Last Will & Testament; and can only be opened by the One who owns the Title Deed to the Earth - Jesus!

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by ctsracing View Post
    I just want to add that God did not protect Lot by having him stay at Sodom and then destroy the rest of Sodom with Lot's house being the last (and only) house standing. God completely removed him geographically from the judgement site

    God did not have provide a vortex in the flood waters so that
    noah, family, and animals would be safe while the rest of earth is 'cleansed'. He has them completely 'rise above' the judgement site.

    Israel (in Goshen) was already seperated geographically; much different than today when you have the 'wheat & tares' groing together.

    Understand that the Scroll isn't just about the judgement of God; it is the dismantling of the earth also, to bring in the new earth and the new Jerusalem. The Scroll could be considered to be the Earth's Last Will & Testament; and can only be opened by the One who owns the Title Deed to the Earth - Jesus!
    Hmmmmmmmm......... very interesting
    Audrey Nicole

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