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  1. #1
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    If there was no sin in Heaven...

    If there was no sin in heaven, how did the devil get kicked out of heaven for being prideful if pride is a sin?

    Tough question!
    Have faith in your faith and doubt your doubts. Not the other way around!

  2. #2
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    This article from gotquestions.org sums it up nicely and short to the point.

    ***

    The Bible describes Heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in Heaven, but the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of Heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in Heaven.

    What does that mean for us? If there is no possibility of sin, does that means we will no longer have a free will in Heaven? It seems that in Heaven, or ability to choose will be similar to that of the angels. The angels had a one-time choice to obey God or follow Satan. There is no possibility of further angels sinning and joining Satan in his rebellion. The holy angels are "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21). Similar, the elect in Heaven will be "sealed" in their decision to forsake sin and trust in Christ. We will not even have the choice to sin. At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of Heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

    ***

    Revelation 21:4

    4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    Revelation 21:27

    27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    Revelation 22:15

    15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for that reference Chad, but I guess my question is how did the enemy get kicked out then if there was no sin? Was heaven different back then than it is now?

    This was taken from gotquestions.org

    Question: "How, why, and when did Satan fall from heaven?"

    Answer: Satanís fall from heaven is described in Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. While these two passages are referring specifically to the king of Babylon and the King of Tyre, they also reference the spiritual power that was behind those kings - Satan. In regards to when Satan fell, these passages describe why Satan fell, but they do not specifically say when the fall occurred. What we do know is this: the angels were created before the earth (Job 38:4-7). Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden (Genesis 3:1-14). Satanís fall, therefore, must have occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Whether Satanís fall occurred a few minutes, hours, or days before he tempted Adam and Eve in the garden, Scripture does not specifically say.

    Why did Satan fall from Heaven? Satan fell because of pride. He desired to be God, not to be a servant of God. Notice the many "I will..." statements in Isaiah 14:12-15. Ezekiel 28:12-15 describes Satan as an exceedingly beautiful angel. Satan was likely the highest of all angels, the most beautiful of all of God's creations. Satan was not content in his position. Instead, Satan desired to be God, to essentially "kick God off His throne" and take over the rule of the universe. Satan wanted to be God, and interestingly enough, that is what Satan tempted Adam and Eve with in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:1-5). How did Satan fall from Heaven? Actually, a fall is not an accurate description. It would be far more accurate to say that God cast Satan out of Heaven (Isaiah 14:15; Ezekiel 28:16-17).
    Have faith in your faith and doubt your doubts. Not the other way around!

  4. #4
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    I believe the Heaven of the past that Satan was in was one where you had the choice to obey or disobey GOD, similar in how we have a choice on earth. The new heaven mentioned in Revelation, this is where we've "endured to the end" and by GOD's grace for our damage already done (sin) we are now in Heaven (new Heaven) with Jesus forever. The old will then be passed away and the new will be without sin nor sorrow.

    I will study this further sister. I'm sure someon else here can answer more thoroughly than myself. I do not have the absolute answer aside the summary I just gave.

  5. #5
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    possibility vs. a reality

    Originally Posted by Chad View Post
    I believe the Heaven of the past that Satan was in was one where you had the choice to obey or disobey GOD, similar in how we have a choice on earth.
    This line made me think of another question pertaining to our future. Do we lose our ability to choose once we go to the new heaven?


    As to the original question, "If there was no sin in heaven, how did the devil get kicked out of heaven for being prideful if pride is a sin?"

    The Bible doesn't seem to indicate the length of time between when He created the angles and when sin went from being an abstract possibility to being a reality. It does seem to indicate that there was nobody making wrong choices until Lucifer acted on his pride and became Satan and there by was "kick out" of heaven.

    my humble thoughts,
    pedro

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    Check out Ezekial 28 you may find what you are looking for there.

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    Satan kicked out of heaven

    Revelations 12 gives the exact time when Satan is cast out of heaven:

    Verse 7:And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    Verse 8: And prevailed not; niether was thier place found anymore in Heaven.

    verse 9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil and satan, which decieveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Verse 10:And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    Verse 12: Therefore, rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you having great wrath, be cause he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Verse 13: And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    Verse 14: And to the woman were given 2 wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time from the face of the serpent.

    Also verse 6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    This 1,260 days and the time and times and half a time of verse 6 and 14 are referring to the time of the grat tribulation that happens right at the end of the world, right before Jesus comes back. So, what we see happening here is that the devil is not cast out of heaven until the start of the great tribulation, at which time he posseses the antichrist and tries to get the whole world to worship him in the person of the antichrist.

    As far as answering the original question that this thread started with: If there is no sin in heaven, how come satan hiumself is in heaven? ; To understand these things we sometimes have to raise ourselves out of the 3 dimensional physical world in which we are living in and try to understand from a 5th dimensional spiritual viewpoint. For example, to say that there is a sinner (satan) in heaven is not the same as saying there is sin in heaven. God all powerfull, all-knowing all-everything and he is in charge of heaven and satan can't do anything without God's permission. The bible even tells us that God created the wicked for the day of evil. Eventually, once God's plan is accomplished, all the wicked, including satan and his angels will be cast into the lake of fire and the only ones in heaven will be god, Jesus, the holy spirit and all his good angels and spirits as well as all of God's saved children.

  8. #8
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    If Satan wasn't to be cast out of heaven until the beginning of the tribulation period, how is it that Jesus predicted the Tribulation in Matthew 24 and pretty close to that (since His public ministry lasted only two years) said to His disciples, "I saw Satan cast out of heaven like lightening." (Lk 10:18a)?

    It appears that Satan was given the heave-ho out of heaven way in advance of the Tribulation.

    SLE
    Last edited by SpiritLedEd; 10-25-07 at 01:03 AM. Reason: typo and punctuation correction.
    I want to be a coin in God's pocket that He can spend any way He wishes.

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    I agree SLE. The bible tells us that Satan was casted out of heaven before the fall of Adam & Eve (how did they fall if Satan wasn't down here on earth?). :angel:

    Thank you for everyone's imput here. I'm going with Chad's theory of the old heaven having free will. That's the only way Satan would have a choice to obey or disobey.

    Have faith in your faith and doubt your doubts. Not the other way around!

  10. #10
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    A further question, did satan create sin?
    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." -Hebrews 13:8

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