I am amazed at you post Louis because most people that say they see the difference between the christian religious institution and the church that Jesus is building, typically say that they still attend because of their children. I usually say to myself when I hear this, "yeah, let's subject our children to the same religious manure, thats had us bound so they can be hindered in their walk with Christ too".


MY hat is off to you Louis, ultimately you are the one Father holds responsible for teaching them about Him, not some Sunday school teacher or youth pastor somewhere. God bless you.

...when someone with their head on straight says that you've got the right idea.
Thanks for the post my friend.

Again I quote from that song..."Jesus held my hand while the "church" was failing me."

I did not know this. Incredible. I read earlier in the thread someone saying they could`nt believe TALK JESUS allowed such blasphemies to be written here against the catholic religion. I can only respond, as God is my witness, that I can`t believe the catholic religion, having held 'sola scripture' in their hands hundreds of years before the common people had access to a Bible, would so blatantly allow such blasphemy against GOD.


Mat 21:33 Jesus said, "Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country.
Mat 21:34 When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to get his fruit.
Mat 21:35 And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them.
Mat 21:37 Finally he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
Mat 21:38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.'
Mat 21:39 And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mat 21:40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
Mat 21:41 They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons."
Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
Mat 21:43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.
Mat 21:44 And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him."

2Co 4:1 God in his mercy has given us this work to do, and so we do not become discouraged. We put aside all secret and shameful deeds; we do not act with deceit, nor do we falsify the word of God. In the full light of truth we live in God's sight and try to commend ourselves to everyone's good conscience. For if the gospel we preach is hidden, it is hidden only from those who are being lost. They do not believe, because their minds have been kept in the dark by the evil god of this world. He keeps them from seeing the light shining on them, the light that comes from the Good News about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. For it is not ourselves that we preach; we preach Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.

Gal 4:8 In the past you did not know God, and so you were slaves of beings who are not gods. But now that you know God---or, I should say, now that God knows you---how is it that you want to turn back to those weak and pitiful ruling spirits? Why do you want to become their slaves all over again?

Col 2:2 I do this in order that they may be filled with courage and may be drawn together in love, and so have the full wealth of assurance which true understanding brings. In this way they will know God's secret, which is Christ himself. He is the key that opens all the hidden treasures of God's wisdom and knowledge. I tell you, then, do not let anyone deceive you with false arguments, no matter how good they seem to be.

I durst not bring forward the law, except to repeat these eternal words:

Deu 5:7 " Worship no god but me."
Deu 5:8 " Do not make for yourselves images of anything in heaven or on earth or in the water under the earth."
Deu 5:9 "Do not bow down to any idol or worship it, for I am the LORD your GOD and I tolerate no rivals."

Now the gospel truth is no longer hidden beneath the cloaks of the catholic religion, anyone who wants to close their eyes, and cover their ears, may do so, but now that you have read GOD`s own Word, you are without excuse.


Act 28:23 From morning till night Paul explained to them his message about the Kingdom of God, and he tried to convince them about Jesus by quoting from the Law of Moses and the writings of the prophets.
Act 28:24 Some of them were convinced by his words, but others would not believe.
Act 28:25 So they left, disagreeing among themselves, after Paul had said this one thing: "How well the Holy Spirit spoke through the prophet Isaiah to your ancestors!
Act 28:26 For he said, 'Go and say to this people: You will listen and listen, but not understand; you will look and look, but not see,
Act 28:27 because this people's minds are dull, and they have stopped up their ears and closed their eyes. Otherwise, their eyes would see, their ears would hear, their minds would understand, and they would turn to me, says God, and I would heal them.' "
Act 28:28 And Paul concluded: "You are to know, then, that God's message of salvation has been sent to the heathen. They will listen!"


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

Mar 7:6 And Jesus said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
Mar 7:7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
Mar 7:8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men."
Mar 7:9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!

Blessings

This is the stuff, this is the stuff.

I'd like to share with you a vision I had in 2003, which I believe applies DIRECTLY to this issue:

i became aware of waking, and lifting my body with some effort out of a thick black slime, and i was in a sea of it. i saw the vast, vast expanse of this slime around me, stretching out for as far as the eye could see.
i look around me and i see that there are others waking and pulling themselves from the sticky muck as well, and i also see a host of others stuck in it, barely visible, unconcious.
some of the people around me are waking as i just had, and some are already awake and trudging forward with great difficulty through that opaque slime. i suddenly realise that this is an army around me, and i am a soldier, and that we are slowly and with difficulty moving forward, toward an unknown landscape.

This vision and the discussion that followed it left me... well, psyched.

Response to inquiry as to “etched is stone”; I had said basically etched in stone.
As you walk around in the midst of Vatican city, you know it is filled with statues and stone pillars, and throughout the corridors are endless reminders of their bishops greatness, and always there is inscriptions in latin. On the way leading up towards their bishops so-called official residence, on either side are more reminders of their bishops legacies, again, with inscriptions in latin. If you go there, bring a translation book, and look yourself at all of the wondrous things that say about themselves; I cannot describe exactly where, because it was a long time ago, but along the way, you can find it; or perhaps you may ask some guide. Please understand, I don´t mean to sound sarcastic over this matter, but, it is very grieving to see any allow their self to be glorified, and it is not limited to the Catholics, nevertheless, they do it in a way of grangure which is over board.

I understand your frustration, but, I implore you to avoid the temptation to paint all churches with the same brush. Over the last thirty plus years, the Holy Spirit has raised up new churches and reorganized some of the old line denominations to get back to preaching the real gospel of Jesus Christ. If you live in or close to a metropolitan area, its a good bet that at least one of these is within driving distance.

I grew up in an old line denomination and, when I came to Christ, I soon grew dissatisfied with the "eleven o'clock sharp to twelve o'clock dull" routine of their Sunday services. A couple of years later, the Lord pointed me toward a non-denominational Bible believing church and I've been there for about twenty years. Its there that I learned the depth and breadth and length and height of God's love; its there that I began to build real relationships with other believers.

SLE

Thanks SLE. I believe that you have a broader base of reference than I do, based (no offense) on your age, for one. You have had more time to see what there is to see, and in a sense I am humbled by the amount of experience that must form the basis of your convictions, compared to my 34 years.

So I'll consider what you say with respect.

My intention is not to condemn the churches that others find good, but to condemn every gathering I've ever attended since they all made my skin crawl.

louis, i agree with you. we are not called nor is it written anywhere in the world of god that we are to join a denomination, congregation, or any other kind of anything except for the body of christ. we are not baptist,lutheran, pentecost, alliance or anything else. we are simply christians.

i am not saying not to go to church but if you want fellowship all you really have to do is hold bible studies or worship gatherings at your house.


i think an important factor to remember is that the roman catholic church was never founded on the rock (jesus christ). it came about as a new way to rule the world when the fall of the roman empire came about. it is what made christianity the business that it is today, it was also the start of denominations, but none of this is biblical.

this is a huge problem for the world today, the gospel has been taught falsely by all denominations for centries now. they have all come to knowledge not to speak the gospel or worship jesus with a whole heart so that they can be popular. this is a lie that the devil has put on the earth, the more popular you are the more spiritually right youare. it is not the truth with the worldly programs and school teachings that are going on. the book of romans in the bible is not at all related to the roman catholic church of today. i think we would be wise to start opening up the lies the roman catholic church has told since its beginnings.

the biggest lie of them all is that there is no perfect church. i believe that people who are truly with christ are lead by the spirit in their teachings and therefore the holy spirit can not faulter

the first one that i would like to point out is the pictures of jesus. some years ago the roman catholic church came out with these pictures and claimed they were the only church in the world to have pictures of jesus. but there are a few problems with these pictures.

1. they do not portrait jesus as the description in the bible.

2. they look an awful lot like michaelangelo.

3. who painted the first picture of jesus and when was it painted? did they actually see jesus when they painted the pictures and plastered his name on them.

there are alot more lies than this in the roman catholic church. i think that people need to know what they are getting into.

I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church and, though I separated from them 20+ years ago, I must challenge the statement that they claimed to be the only church in the world to have pictures of Jesus. In all my 46 years in the Catholic Church, I never heard that taught or even suggested. Could you tell us where you got that information?

Case in point: Philippe Halsman's "Head of Christ" is a famous painting that I didn't know existed when I was in the Catholic Church. If memory serves, I first saw it in a Protestant home. Also, there are many artistic depictions of Jesus in Children's Bibles and Sunday School books used in Protestant churches - have been for years, since long before I came to Christ.

I can't imagine anyone in the heirarchy of the Catholic Church at any time in its history being sooo stupid as to make such a claim.

SLE