Hi, I apologize for interupting but I feel I must add somethings to this discussion. I was born into a penacostal church. My grandmother, being a christian pillar to her children and grandchildren, spoke in tounges many times throughout our lives. As a child, I didnt understand anything about speaking in tounges, or the way some acted when the Spirit was upon them. Sometimes it would scare me. However, from the times as far back as I can remember, I spoke to God. My mother taught me at a very young age to pray. And I dont know why I just always knew that Jesus was listening to me. Sometimes I would feel comforted from just speaking to the Lord. And my favorite things to do were my Godbless's. You know God bless momma, and daddy, ect..................
Anyway, as I became a teen, I was shy and could not express my praise and feelings in church. When I would feel the shiver down my spine, or the tears welling in my eyes. My fear of being noticed by my fellow teens anchored me to the bench. It was only after marriage did I begin to search for a deeper relationship with the Lord. It was then that I realized that the Spirit did touch me many times as a child even though I didnt know it at the time.
The Spirit was there in the comfort of a childs prayers, or the shiver down my spine, or a tear in a young teenagers eyes.
After my husband and I had been married for about 5 years. I recieved the phone call no one ever wants to get. My husband had been in an almost fatal car crash and he was pinned in the vehicle. Fearing my husband would die when released from the van, I was called to come be with him when the paramedics cut the door from the car. The moment I put the phone down I began to pray. When I got to the wreck they had already gotten him out and airlifted him to a trauma hospital near by. I found out later that the first person on the scene was a church pastor from about 40 miles away. I was told that the man prayed with and for my husband the entire time they worked to get him out. I was told that he kept my husband from going into shock, and saved his life.
The pastor later visted my husband many times in the hospital. I found out that his church came together in a prayer group to pray for my husband, people that didnt even know him. My husband had a broken back, severly broken knee, dislocated hip, a bad burn from an airbag, and worst of all they had to remove 7 segments of intestines, his appendix, and part of his colon. He had 2 major surgerys and had to be intebated twice.
He spent 2 weeks in the hospital.
All of my love and praise goes to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by Brandi Yvonne

Hi, I apologize for interupting but I feel I must add somethings to this discussion. I was born into a penacostal church. My grandmother, being a christian pillar to her children and grandchildren, spoke in tounges many times throughout our lives. As a child, I didnt understand anything about speaking in tounges, or the way some acted when the Spirit was upon them. Sometimes it would scare me. However, from the times as far back as I can remember, I spoke to God. My mother taught me at a very young age to pray. And I dont know why I just always knew that Jesus was listening to me. Sometimes I would feel comforted from just speaking to the Lord. And my favorite things to do were my Godbless's. You know God bless momma, and daddy, ect..................
Anyway, as I became a teen, I was shy and could not express my praise and feelings in church. When I would feel the shiver down my spine, or the tears welling in my eyes. My fear of being noticed by my fellow teens anchored me to the bench. It was only after marriage did I begin to search for a deeper relationship with the Lord. It was then that I realized that the Spirit did touch me many times as a child even though I didnt know it at the time.
The Spirit was there in the comfort of a childs prayers, or the shiver down my spine, or a tear in a young teenagers eyes.
After my husband and I had been married for about 5 years. I recieved the phone call no one ever wants to get. My husband had been in an almost fatal car crash and he was pinned in the vehicle. Fearing my husband would die when released from the van, I was called to come be with him when the paramedics cut the door from the car. The moment I put the phone down I began to pray. When I got to the wreck they had already gotten him out and airlifted him to a trauma hospital near by. I found out later that the first person on the scene was a church pastor from about 40 miles away. I was told that the man prayed with and for my husband the entire time they worked to get him out. I was told that he kept my husband from going into shock, and saved his life.
The pastor later visted my husband many times in the hospital. I found out that his church came together in a prayer group to pray for my husband, people that didnt even know him. My husband had a broken back, severly broken knee, dislocated hip, a bad burn from an airbag, and worst of all they had to remove 7 segments of intestines, his appendix, and part of his colon. He had 2 major surgerys and had to be intebated twice.
He spent 2 weeks in the hospital.
All of my love and praise goes to our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure that I understand the point your trying to make here, could you please elaberate Brandi Yvonne?

SPIRITUAL GIFTS AND LOVE - 1 CORINTHIANS 12, 13

Before the New Testament was completed, while it was in the process of being written, in certain places, and at certain times, God gave special Miraculous Manifestations of the Holy Spirit to help the Churches guide themselves in the Truth.

This was necessary, because the Apostles were few, the Churches far apart, the means of transportation and communication slow, no railroads, telegraphs or radios. Ideas could travel no faster than people could travel, the Churches everywhere overrun with false teachers making all kinds of false claims, and Churches had no written records as to actual facts.

Apparently there had recently been a brilliant display of Gifts of the Holy Spirit in Corinth. One of these gifts was that of Speaking in Tongues, that is, in a Foreign Language, probably, as the Apostles did on the day of Pentecost - Acts 2:8.

1 Corinthians 12:

This gift, whatever it was, was very popular with the Corinthians. They all wanted it. If a brother could get up in a meeting, and speak right out in a language that his neighbor knew he had never studied, that would be plain evidence that he was under direct control of the Holy Spirit. And they would look up to him. Then, as now, some people went to Church for the honor they could get out of it for themselves.

The various gifts of the Spirit, enumerated in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, were Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Healings, Miracles, Prophecy, Tongues, Interpretating of Tongues. It is in a discussion of the Relative Value of these various gifts that the Love chapter is set.

1 Corinthians 13:

Love, the Premier Teaching of Christianity. An undying expression of Jesus' doctrine of Heavenly Love. More potent for the building of the Church than any, or all, of the various mainifestations of God's Power.

Love, the Church's most effective weapon. Love, without which all of the various Gifts of the Spirit are of no avail. Love, the Essence of God's Nature. Love, the Perfection of Human Character. Love, the most Powerful Ultimate Force in the Universe.

Even if I bestow all my goods to Feed the Poor, even if I give my body to be burned, if I Have Not Love, it Profits me Nothing - 1 Corinthians 13:3. What a thought-provoking passage!

The Gift of Speaking like an Angel, of Prophesying, of having All Knowledge, of Faith that Moves Mountains, of Charity to the last dollar, even Martyrdom, all of no use unless we have the Spirit of Christian LOVE. A call to Self-Examination.

God Bless,

Dan

Originally Posted by DanV

SPIRITUAL GIFTS AND LOVE - 1 CORINTHIANS 12, 13

Before the New Testament was completed, while it was in the process of being written, in certain places, and at certain times, God gave special Miraculous Manifestations of the Holy Spirit to help the Churches guide themselves in the Truth.

This was necessary, because the Apostles were few, the Churches far apart, the means of transportation and communication slow, no railroads, telegraphs or radios. Ideas could travel no faster than people could travel, the Churches everywhere overrun with false teachers making all kinds of false claims, and Churches had no written records as to actual facts.

Apparently there had recently been a brilliant display of Gifts of the Holy Spirit in Corinth. One of these gifts was that of Speaking in Tongues, that is, in a Foreign Language, probably, as the Apostles did on the day of Pentecost - Acts 2:8.

1 Corinthians 12:

This gift, whatever it was, was very popular with the Corinthians. They all wanted it. If a brother could get up in a meeting, and speak right out in a language that his neighbor knew he had never studied, that would be plain evidence that he was under direct control of the Holy Spirit. And they would look up to him. Then, as now, some people went to Church for the honor they could get out of it for themselves.

The various gifts of the Spirit, enumerated in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, were Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Healings, Miracles, Prophecy, Tongues, Interpretating of Tongues. It is in a discussion of the Relative Value of these various gifts that the Love chapter is set.

1 Corinthians 13:

Love, the Premier Teaching of Christianity. An undying expression of Jesus' doctrine of Heavenly Love. More potent for the building of the Church than any, or all, of the various mainifestations of God's Power.

Love, the Church's most effective weapon. Love, without which all of the various Gifts of the Spirit are of no avail. Love, the Essence of God's Nature. Love, the Perfection of Human Character. Love, the most Powerful Ultimate Force in the Universe.

Even if I bestow all my goods to Feed the Poor, even if I give my body to be burned, if I Have Not Love, it Profits me Nothing - 1 Corinthians 13:3. What a thought-provoking passage!

The Gift of Speaking like an Angel, of Prophesying, of having All Knowledge, of Faith that Moves Mountains, of Charity to the last dollar, even Martyrdom, all of no use unless we have the Spirit of Christian LOVE. A call to Self-Examination.

God Bless,

Dan

I agree DanV that we need to have love working in and through us, it is one of the nine fruits of the Spirit listed in Galatians chapter 5. Paul is stating to the Corinthian church that they need to make sure that Love is their motivater. Many people think that Paul is telling them that love replaces the Spirtual gifts and this is a gross misunderstanding. We need all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as well as the fruits of the Holy Spirit.That is why no one should form an opinion or idea on just one verse or one chapter.I think to conclude anything on only chapter12 and 13 of 1Corinthians is neglegent at the very least. What about chapters 11 and 14? I think that to know or have a full thought of what God wants concerning anything and everything we need to read the whole book.

Galatians 5

Christ Has Set Us Free

1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. 11 But if I, brothers, still preach circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed. 12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

Walk by the Spirit

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Originally Posted by jiggyfly

I agree DanV that we need to have love working in and through us, it is one of the nine fruits of the Spirit listed in Galatians chapter 5. Paul is stating to the Corinthian church that they to make sure that Love is their motivater. Many people think that Paul is telling them that love replaces the Spirtual gifts and this is a gross misunderstanding. We need all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as well as the fruits of the Holy Spirit.That is why no one should form an opinion or idea on just one verse or one chapter.I think to conclude anything on only chapetr 12 and 13 of 1Corinthians is neglegent at the very least. What about chapters 11 and 14? I think that to know or have a full thought of what God wants concerning anything and everything we need to read the whole book.

The below should not be construed as conclusive; however it is a summary informing anyone and everyone that, as 1 Corinthians 13:1 states, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal."

SPIRITUAL GIFTS AND LOVE - 1 CORINTHIANS 12, 13

Before the New Testament was completed, while it was in the process of being written, in certain places, and at certain times, God gave special Miraculous Manifestations of the Holy Spirit to help the Churches guide themselves in the Truth.

This was necessary, because the Apostles were few, the Churches far apart, the means of transportation and communication slow, no railroads, telegraphs or radios. Ideas could travel no faster than people could travel, the Churches everywhere overrun with false teachers making all kinds of false claims, and Churches had no written records as to actual facts.

Apparently there had recently been a brilliant display of Gifts of the Holy Spirit in Corinth. One of these gifts was that of Speaking in Tongues, that is, in a Foreign Language, probably, as the Apostles did on the day of Pentecost - Acts 2:8.

1 Corinthians 12:

This gift, whatever it was, was very popular with the Corinthians. They all wanted it. If a brother could get up in a meeting, and speak right out in a language that his neighbor knew he had never studied, that would be plain evidence that he was under direct control of the Holy Spirit. And they would look up to him. Then, as now, some people went to Church for the honor they could get out of it for themselves.

The various gifts of the Spirit, enumerated in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, were Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Healings, Miracles, Prophecy, Tongues, Interpretating of Tongues. It is in a discussion of the Relative Value of these various gifts that the Love chapter is set.

1 Corinthians 13:

Love, the Premier Teaching of Christianity. An undying expression of Jesus' doctrine of Heavenly Love. More potent for the building of the Church than any, or all, of the various mainifestations of God's Power.

Love, the Church's most effective weapon. Love, without which all of the various Gifts of the Spirit are of no avail. Love, the Essence of God's Nature. Love, the Perfection of Human Character. Love, the most Powerful Ultimate Force in the Universe.

Even if I bestow all my goods to Feed the Poor, even if I give my body to be burned, if I Have Not Love, it Profits me Nothing - 1 Corinthians 13:3. What a thought-provoking passage!

The Gift of Speaking like an Angel, of Prophesying, of having All Knowledge, of Faith that Moves Mountains, of Charity to the last dollar, even Martyrdom, all of no use unless we have the Spirit of Christian LOVE. A call to Self-Examination.

1 Corithians 11 talks about Woman's Part in Church and The Lord's Supper.

1 Corinthians 14:

This chapter is a discussion of the Relative Value of Tongues and Prophesying, which seem to have been the two gifts most sought after.

"Prophecy" was teaching on a lofty plane. It is not "foretelling" so much as Prophesying, which ordinarily meant Predicting Future Events, here seems to mean Teaching by special aid of the Spirit. Ordinarily it was far more valuable than Speaking in Tongues, because everybody understood it.

Woman's Part in Church - 1 Corinthians 14:33-40, continued from 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. Paul here forbids - 1 Corinthians 14: 34, 35, what he seem to allow in 1 Corinthians 11:5. There must have been some local circumstance, unknown to us, that gave point to these instructions--possibly some bold woman unbecomingly putting themselves forward.

God Bless,

Dan

Yeah, I read your post the first time you posted it DanV, but you still haven't supported your theory of prophecy being "teaching on a lofty plane" with any other scripture. it seems that you are dodging here. I do not agree with you on this point. The prophecy that is mentioned in 1Corinthians 14 is the greek word propheteuo to foretell events, to prophesy. In 1Corinthians 14:6, 22 the word prophesying is the greek word propheteia which means prediction, prophecy, prophesying. As you can see there is no mention of teaching in any form.

Everywhere you see the word teach or teaching in the new testament it is the greek word didasko which means to teach.

1Corinthians 14:1-4
1*Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy. 2*For if your gift is the ability to speak in tongues,* you will be talking to God but not to people, since they won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. 3*But one who prophesies is helping others grow in the Lord, encouraging and comforting them. 4*A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.


Anyone and I repeat anyone who is against speaking in tongues and or prophecy today is against anyone and everyone becoming built up in the Lord Jesus Christ , period, and that makes them against the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself.

Originally Posted by jiggyfly

Anyone and I repeat anyone who is against speaking in tongues and or prophecy today is against anyone and everyone becoming built up in the Lord Jesus Christ , period, and that makes them against the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself.

Amen, in agreement 100%. It is wrong for anyone to assume GOD does not use and offer these spiritual gifts. Seriously, I have witnessed them with my own eyes. If they were not purposeful, GOD would not offer them in the first place.

Originally Posted by jiggyfly

Yeah, I read your post the first time you posted it DanV, but you still haven't supported your theory of prophecy being "teaching on a lofty plane" with any other scripture. it seems that you are dodging here. I do not agree with you on this point. The prophecy that is mentioned in 1Corinthians 14 is the greek word propheteuo to foretell events, to prophesy. In 1Corinthians 14:6, 22 the word prophesying is the greek word propheteia which means prediction, prophecy, prophesying. As you can see there is no mention of teaching in any form.Everywhere you see the word teach or teaching in the new testament it is the greek word didasko which means to teach.
1Corinthians 14:1-4
1*Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy. 2*For if your gift is the ability to speak in tongues,* you will be talking to God but not to people, since they won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. 3*But one who prophesies is helping others grow in the Lord, encouraging and comforting them. 4*A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.
Anyone and I repeat anyone who is against speaking in tongues and or prophecy today is against anyone and everyone becoming built up in the Lord Jesus Christ , period, and that makes them against the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself.

Any Christian should welcome the role that the Holy Spirit plays in the life of the believer. Be it Prophesy or Tongues.

1 Corinthians 14: 1-5 - Prophesy and Tongues.

1. "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

2. For he who speakd in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

3. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

4. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

5. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Further reading on Prophesy and Tongues:

1 Corinthians 14:6-19 - Tongues Must Be Interpreted
1 Corinthians 14:20-25 - Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers
1 Corinthians 14:26-40 - Order in Church Meetings

We read in 1 Corinthians 14:31, that "For you can all prophesy (teach) one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged." (italics added are mine)
When you learn something, would you say that someone is 'teaching.'? So, can prophecy be translated here as teaching? Am I stretching?

Finally, Paul teaches this: We don't call Jesus "Lord" on our own spectacular discovery. Unless and until the Holy Spirit comes alongside and pricks our spirit, we're spiritually unable to recognize what "Lord" means and who "Lord" is.

This clear word from God has direct application to how we articulate our faith. Giving testimony to faith in Jesus should include a profound note of gratitude to God. When sharing our faith, it is not our profound choice of words that will turn a sinner to a saint. We are merely witnessing: the Holy Spirit is doing the rest. And our prayers for the Spirit's help in that task are always the will of God. He touches people's hearts; His Holy Spirit helps people believe. And even if we are years into the faith, the Holy Spirit is still helping us learn and understand more about our Lord.

I read about a Christian teacher who while dying of cancer, was struck by fear that he had not served the Lord very well. No one else thought this of him, but in his weakened condition and pain, he harbored doubt. Truth is, he was right; he could never have served well enough to earn heaven's reward. He was wrong, however, to think that his salvation would hinge on his estiminations of a well-lived life. The Holy Spirit, who had enables his first confession of faith years earlier, would enable him at the last.

This is the assurance God gives us. If you have called Jesus "Lord," it is by God's grace alone that you can. If you have not, it is the same God who will enable you. Trust Him.

God Bless,

Dan

I hate to ressurect this post, but I an jiggly have been discussing it else where, and he asked me to continue the topic here:

Originally Posted by jiggyfly

Yeah, I read your post the first time you posted it DanV, but you still haven't supported your theory of prophecy being "teaching on a lofty plane" with any other scripture. it seems that you are dodging here. I do not agree with you on this point. The prophecy that is mentioned in 1Corinthians 14 is the greek word propheteuo to foretell events, to prophesy.

I disagree with you heavily on the meaning of this Greek word. This meaning for the word was not introduced until the Middle Ages. It comes from the two words pro, which means "before," and phemi, which means "to speak." Literally, then, the verb propheteuo means "to speak before." To prophesy is to speak before somebody else. Like a preacher does in his pulpit every Sunday, or like speaking in front of someone else in any situation.

In 1Corinthians 14:6, 22 the word prophesying is the Greek word propheteia which means prediction, prophecy, prophesying. As you can see there is no mention of teaching in any form.

Again I disagree with your use of this Greek word which is derived from the one above.

Everywhere you see the word teach or teaching in the new testament it is the Greek word didasko which means to teach.


1Corinthians 14:1-4
1*Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy. 2*For if your gift is the ability to speak in tongues,* you will be talking to God but not to people, since they won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. 3*But one who prophesies is helping others grow in the Lord, encouraging and comforting them. 4*A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

Since we will be looking at the original Greek, let us also note that Paul uses "tongue", and "tongues", and the distinction between the two is made throughout the chapter (one is singular,one is plural). I believe that when he uses the singular he is referencing your version of speaking in tongues (utterances), and the plural is to the true gift, which Paul himself likely possessed.

The singular is used in verse 4, and I don't know what translation you took that from, but I am going to use an extremely literal translation from the CLNT:

"⁴ He who is speaking in a language is edifying himself, yet he who is prophesying is edifying the ecclesia."

What then is Paul saying? I don't know how your translation seems to translate "edifies" into "is strengthened personally in the Lord", but I certainly don't see that in the CLNT or in the NASB. or in the NIV for that matter.

Clearly Paul is saying that someone speaking in tongues (the singular type, the utterance type) they are doing it for their own edification. Someone who prophesies [speaks publicly](in this context publicly to the church, or maybe more generally publicly about God or the Gospel) edifies the whole crowd/church (ecclesia). So he is clarifying right here that it is better to edify the church, and preach the gospel and educate believers and convert unbelievers, than it is to edify yourself (build yourself up) with this type of "speaking in tongues".

Anyone and I repeat anyone who is against speaking in tongues and or prophecy today is against anyone and everyone becoming built up in the Lord Jesus Christ , period, and that makes them against the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself.

I certainly wont disagree with this.. I will agree with it, but not when it means I have to agree with your translations of the Greek words, which I do not feel to be accurate.

Nothing would make me happier than to see the church grow so don't misinterpret what I am saying.

I am fairly sure now that my belief is a minority amongst the Christians on this site, and likely you see me as "not one of us" for my holding this belief. DanV may be the only other Christian I have seen on this site who isn't of a Pentecostal or similar denomination. I would like to think that our beliefs being different on this one subject really should not be a problem, but I am not sure you all will feel the same, as you seem to point out that if I don't believe in your speaking in tongues then I am against Christ.

I am all for anything the Bible says. I believe in the one true God of the bible, and I believe these verses in debate are God inspired. I have tried to take your view as openly as possible and prayed before posting, but I can not agree with your interpretation of these passages on one simple principle:

The majority of the New Testament indicates to me that God doesn't work in ways we see straight in front of our face. It is more glorifying for him to work in much subtler ways, and makes our faith that much more valuable when we trust not in physical experiences, but simply in his promises. Of course Christ’s life was full of miracles and the supernatural because he was the son of God, but to extend that type of miraculous and supernatural phenomenon beyond his time here on earth, and the time shortly after with his chosen 12(13), takes away from the glory of Christ's life and the significance of that time period.



I would like to finally add that my father's salvation came largely in part by a woman who was of a Pentecostal denomination, so I tend to think of people of this belief as brothers even if we disagree.




So that is it for me, I'll gladly debate further if you want to, but I am not sure I am allowed to continue as it now seems possible this site is more Pentecostal denominated than I am, and the final statement made in the quoted post seems to indicate that I am against Christ.