Hey Avondaledot,

I'm sorry too for what you went through. It sounded extremely unpleasant and confusing. For some reason it wasn't the right time for you to be baptised in the Spirit. I had to wait on God for months before I received it, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Just keep praying and at the right time God will answer your prayers. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is really about being further equipped to witness and minister. It's NOT just all about tongues...that just shows us that we have in fact received the infilling. Tongues does really help you to pray though. And public speaking in tongues must always be interpreted

love
evangeline

Originally Posted by evangeline

Hey Avondaledot,

I'm sorry too for what you went through. It sounded extremely unpleasant and confusing. For some reason it wasn't the right time for you to be baptised in the Spirit. I had to wait on God for months before I received it, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Just keep praying and at the right time God will answer your prayers. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is really about being further equipped to witness and minister. It's just all about tongues...that just shows us that we have in fact received the infilling. Tongues does really help you to pray though. And public speaking in tongues must always be interpreted

love
evangeline

Evangeline.... I have studied the matter of speaking in tongues and have stated my thoughts in previous post. I would appreciate clarification on 2 comments you made.

"The baptism of the Holy Spirit is really about being further equipped to witness and minister." The church I attended as a youth taught this, but as I got older I realized that there is no scriptural justification for this teaching. Please explain your scriptural basis for this statement.

"It's just all about tongues...that just shows us that we have in fact received the infilling." I have never understood the scriptural basis for this assertion. Please help me here.

I am concerned that this theology creates an environment where there 2 classes of christians where there are the really spiritual (those who speak in tongues) and those that are less spiritual (those who do not). It's as if a person's commitment to Christ is no longer by faith but by an external standard (speaking in tongues).... not by faith but by works. This is contrary to Paul's teaching "we are saved by faith not by works lest any man should boast".

I view the charismatic churches as highly arrogant and very close the gnostic heresy in the early church. Believers speaking in tongues have some kind of special religious experience much like early gnostics. I am also concerned that charismatic churches tend to not fellowship with other churches that don't share their believe in tongues. This promotes disunity among christians... As I understand the presence of the Holy Spirit... that presence promotes unity.

I agree Pappa. The Holy Spirit is our guide in life, our comforter and protector. Yes, the Holy Spirit does also in fact equip us to minister and preach to the world but it is a gift from GOD (as is the gift of speaking in tongues - which for the record does not make one 'holier than thou' so to speak over one that has not that gift, but another gift from GOD).

GOD gives certain gifts according to His will. Sometimes people fail to understand this and think perhaps that for example one who can perform miracles in Jesus' name may be holier than the one who cannot, or "higher" per se. This is false and deceiving.

I asked God to give me the gift of speaking in tongues because I wanted to know how it felt. When I asked him, I was in prayer and I began to feel hands on my back and sholders, pushing me to the floor and having me bow to the Lord and remain there as I repeated the Lord's prayer over and over again.
After doing this for a long time, I heard a strange word in my head and it felt like someone was pulling on my tongue and when I opened my mouth, it felt as though something was trying to come out of me. It took 3 tries before I realized that I was supposed to repeat the word outloud. I opened my mouth and said the word and suddenly I was speaking in a language that I had never heard before.
I still have no idea what I'm saying in it and I have never heard it spoken by anyone else, but I do know that it's for my personal prayer time with God and that if one day He asked me to speak outloud at church, that there would be someone there to interpret. Until He asks me though, I only speak quietly when I hear the words in my head, and most of the time, I am alone when that happens. When I described what happened to me for me to speak, I have been told by others that they too had similar experiences, mainly with hearing a word and speaking it and all of a sudden speaknig in a launguage unknown to them.
In case you are wondering, I have asked for other gifts as well and received them, but I'm only telling about the gift of tongues because that's what the subject is.
I don't believe that someone has to speak in tongues to be close to God. I have met many, many people who are very close to the Lord and have never spoken in tongues. I think that obeying God in all things is what really matters, and that is what marks you as His own, not the gifts that He gives.
Its like this: If a boy was given a car by his father, it makes him no more special than his brother who wasn't given the car, but instead was given a gift of being able to attend college. Their father loves them just the same even though one gift is a tangible gift that you can see and touch while the other is a blessing in life.
Just because someone can't speak in tonuges, prophesize, or anything else that some churches seem to think matter most, doesn't mean that God hasn't given them gifts of their own. Being able to have an education is a gift. Or maybe someone has been given the gift of true love. Maybe someone was very ill and God healed them. That's a gift just as valuable as tongues.
The other day we were walking through the church hallway and a little girl tripped and fell. My 10 year old daughter ran up to her and helped her up, set her upon her feet and made sure she was alright. That reaction of swift caring love, to me, is a gift from God! Even though my daughter can't speak in tongues, prophesize, minister or other things like that, she is still gifted.
So don't let someone fool you into thinking that you have to speak in tongues to be close to God. Or that you have to tell prophesies to the church or to your friends. Those people are as Pappa, Chad and Al have said...arrogant!

Just because you might not have one of the gifts that most christians focus on, does NOT mean that you aren't gifted by God. Listen to Him, obey Him, and He will continue to gift you everyday!

I have been given 'words' but not in tongues
I have been praying asking the Lord to speak to me
in the stillness of the night in sleep, and he has
answered this twice to me.
The first time was over a year ago, I awoke with the
words 'I will gird up your loins' which at that time
as I wasn't long saved I didn't understand but now I do.
The second time was very recently, a few weeks ago
it was 'Honour your father and your Mother' why this
I don't know, I love my parents and we have a great
relationship but there must be a reason,
just thought I'd add this on your thread, hope
you's don't mind. LordBless

Hi Pappa,
Firstly let me say "woops!" What I really meant to say is that it's NOT just about tongues. I accidently left out the NOT. Sorry about that! (That was pretty bad wasn't it - SORRY) I'll edit it in so that it doesn't cause more confusion.

In the Book of Acts, in almost every instance where people were filled with the Holy Spirit, it also mentions that they spoke in tongues. This is easy to check..just read the Book of Acts. But tongues itself is just a sign - it is not the important thing, that's what I was trying to say before, the important thing is that the Holy Spirit has infilled you .

About your first point though... Jesus told his disciples (which at that time amounted to about 120 believers - Acts 1:15) to wait for the Holy Spirit so that they could be empowered to witness.

...you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you: and you will be my witnesses...Acts 1:8

Jesus had previously blown upon his disciples, after his death and ressurection, at which time they received salvation with the initial deposit/seal of the Holy Spirit. (John 20:22 cf 2 Corinthians 1:21b-22)

The Holy Spirit helps us to be witnesses because:
He gives us wisdom for each situation
He guides us to new opportunities to witness
He helps us to understand the heart of the person we are sharing with
He may help us to discern evil spirits which are hindering the person from responding and He gives us the power to deal with these
He may work a miracle through us which will add confirmation to our words.
He also gives us added boldness...just look at Peter

You also raise a very good point about arrogance. I know that the infilling of the Holy Spirit has helped me to become a better Christian and that He helps me in my daily walk with God, especially with prayer, but I also know of many other Christians who do not speak in tongues, and they are extremely effective Christians with a passion for the lost and very close to God. I am certainly not better than them and I would abhor any distinction!!! I would also not go so far as to say that charismatics are more spiritual than non-charismatics (although some like to act that way) it all depends on the individual and his walk with God.

I don't regard myself as a charismatic...pentecostal perhaps...but I hang out (fellowship) with many Christains with varying beliefs. In Australia we are allowed to speak about God in schools, so I regularly speak (and sing) at high schools and camps, and work with other Christians. I do not feel superior at all, in fact it is hard to even type the word "superior" because it causes me concern. I have a very high regard for my fellow Christian friends. The gift of the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a gift and available for everyone. Like all God's blessings it is underserved.

Also, I am a BIG BIG fan of God's grace! I fully recognise that my salvation is a free and gracious gift from God received through faith in Jesus. I can't see how this issue changes that understanding in any way.

love to everyone at talkjesus
evangeline

I believe you Al!
Maybe this is a gift that God is training you in and He is planning for you to use it for Him in the future.
God never gives us more than we can handle in Him.
Your gift may not be written in the bible, but its still a gift! Thank you for sharing it Al.
Luv ya bro!

Hi Al,

Your gift is in the Bible..it's called the word, or message, of knowledge...it's knowing something that you could not have known by normal ot natural means...in otherwords the Holy Spirit gives you the insight. See 1 Corinthians 12:8b

God bless you all !!


I've read all the posts here... and Maximus states is very well.
Poppa is also on the right track , as well...

I have a charismatic background. I've been to many different meetings and tent revivals, all sorts. I've SEEN so much stuff...its actually a terrifying thing, at times.... it is truly amazing what is paraded before Christians eyes and then they are told THIS IS FROM THE LORD....when you got to wonder......IS IT?!
Discernment is a great spiritual gift.. Amen !!!

I have brought unbelievers to some charismatic churches where everyone is loud and is talking in tongues..and it really is a turn off to the unbelievers. They think they are nothing less than CRAZY....-- so as poppa said...tongues are a sign to the unbeliever...yes he's right, they are, and our job is to keep it all in subjection to the Word of God.

I do believe as maximus said, there are tongues to build us up, to stir our hearts. Also when we do not know how to pray, the Holy Ghost prays through us.... this I believe and know.

I did have a hard time with this, years ago when a movement was coming into being within charismatic circles. I was seeing believers do things, and to me, it was like...what is going on here?!
I prayed about it and prayed about it, and here is my thoughts on this matter.

When a preacher really has the anointing of God upon him, when a preacher truly has the unction of the Holy Ghost leading him and working through him.... well he doesn't need to do anything in his flesh, just be obedient to what the Holy Ghost gives him. When he prays for me, he wont' need to help the Holy Ghost out to 'push' me down, so I become slain in the spirit. ( you laugh, but I've been through this!!)

When the preacher really has the unction of the Holy Ghost there is no need for gimmicks and tricks and no need for entertainment in the pulpit!


Another thought too, is ... The Holy Ghost glorifies Jesus.
Saying this, then in meetings, if someone is doing something that is not glorifying Jesus...... how can that be the Holy Ghost?? It isn't !

Now being slain in the spirit, I was also told this was simply a believer falling under the power of God.

In the last days Jesus said, perilous times shall come upon us. Also there would be wolves in sheeps clothing come into the fold and try to deceive even the elect if they could.
Many times we follow the healings, and miracles, and the signs and wonders but think of this, Jesus said SIGNS AND WONDERS would follow us !!!!

Also, true revival begins in a believers heart and shouldn't die. A revival doesn't begin on sunday night and end thursday night when the preacher goes home....... if it does..then that is not true revival.

Paul warned us to keep in the ways of truth. He told us if anyone came to us presenting another gospel, or another Jesus... not to give heed to fables.

If I can give any advice to young christians, it would be not to focus on the 'gift' or the 'blessings' that you may see happening in meetings. Instead, focus on Jesus. Don't focus on any man. Just stay in tune to what God is doing in your life. Jesus said to seek first the Kingdom of God and all other things would be added unto us.
My prayer has always been and still is.." Jesus, just a closer walk with Thee,,, just a closer walk with Thee. "

Just remember : when someone professes to have a lot of God on them, a strong anointing upon them, then if that is so, they won't ever need the aid of gimmicks and tricks to get people to fall down, get healed, and even get saved...when God is really on the scene, it will HAPPEN.

AMEN

Hallelujiah!!! Praise the Lord!!! I Loved and agreed muchly with you reply. I have been waiting and praying for a while off and on again that the Lord see fit for me to speak in tongues, this has not happened yet, I know that if it is gonna it will and then again maybe it will not be something that I am blessed with. Oh well He knows the plans He has for me (Jeremiah29:11). Also recently was visiting a church and I guess the slain in the spirit thing was what they were trying to do. This one guy said he had something that he needed to tell me and then I had to go up to the front and they were praying and trying to (gently tugging) me back so I just gave up and laid down but I know tha, it wasn't what they were trying to make it seem. I'm not really one to just go along with what others are doing. But I do know when the Lord is working on me and I have no choice in that matter.
I do wish I could pray in the spirit alone for this that edifies your spirit but so far nothing so I will just keep praying the way I know how to pray for now and let God just keep leading me where He is taking me.
Yours in Him!
God Bless, Love, Peace, and Prayers,