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  1. #1
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    The “Old Man” and the Me

    What does Scripture intend by the use of, “the old man” (Rom. 6:6; Eph. 4:22; Col 3:9)? Is it an entity, such as a person or an angel? Whatever it is, Scripture’s reference to it attributes it as the determining factor of the quality of an individual. What is it within a person that determines their words, thoughts, feelings and actions? Is it not the nature of an individual? It could not be more correct to assume the old man is the original nature of man, which Adam as the progenitor has hereditarily “passed upon all men” (Rom 5:12, 15, 17, 19).

    Whether your view is eradication or existential (continued) concerning the Adamic nature, it cannot affect the receiving or retaining of salvation; but this view does affect the believer’s condition concerning the growth within salvation.

    During the pre-Cross dispensation, man possessed a single nature which Scripture ascribes as “sinful” (Rom. 5:12; 7:13; 1 John 1:8); and now in the post-Cross dispensation the believer has been given an additional nature or “new man,” which Scripture ascribes as “righteousness and true holiness” (Eph. 4:24). Through the Spirit, in conjunction with the new nature and through the Cross-restraint condition (effected by Christ and administered by the Spirit) of the old nature (Rom. 6:6), the Father “conforms” the regenerate “to the image of His Son” (Rom. 8:29)—“from glory to glory” (2 Cor. 3:18).

    Scripture, for its general usage concerning the sinful nature refers to it as “the flesh”; which nature (flesh) is “the carnal mind” and “is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be” (Rom. 8:7). This is that nature which the Holy Spirit opposes within the believer, inasmuch that “the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish” (Gal. 5:17 NKJV). It is also depicted as a dichotomy of natures (old and new man) in Romans Seven, where the new nature is represented as the new “I” (vs. 17, 20), “the inward man” (v. 22) and “the mind” (v. 25); and the old nature represented as “carnal “(v. 14), “flesh” (vs. 18, 25), “evil” (vs. 19, 21).

    Finally, the new nature is also depicted as “His (Christ) seed” (1 John 3:9), which complies with Colossians 3:10: “and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him (Christ) who created him (it—new nature).” It is the one “born again” (believer) in his new nature that cannot sin, but still does sin in his old nature (Rom. 7:25). The “seed” cannot refer to Christ because He did not require regeneration (born again)—being the Regenerator—through the Spirit.

    It has been well said, “the lost need saved and the saved needs delivered”; delivered from the bondage of not knowing and thus, not appropriating the freedom available to the believer; which appropriation can be established in walking “circumspectly” (of self, Satan and society), “not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil” (Eph. 5:15, 16).
    Last edited by NetChaplain; 03-26-13 at 05:41 PM.
    "The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us" -MJS

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetChaplain View Post
    Whether your view is eradication or existential (continued) concerning the Adamic nature, it cannot affect the receiving or retaining of salvation; but this view does affect the believer’s condition concerning the growth within salvation.
    Indeed. Our salvation is based on the workd of Christ at the cross and His goodness. He gave us a new spirit, and we get a new body at the resurrection- but He came to save our soul and paid full price for us in "warts and all" condition. He is not surprised when we stumble, He is already standing there hands outreached to lift us back up.
    Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
    He gave us a new spirit
    Amen Bo - I like seeing it as same spirit and soul; same person-hood, but with new nature ("new man") which produces a renewed mind (Rom 12:2), which is of Christ (1 Cor 2:16; Phil 2:5). He did not want to replace us but renew us, as Christ does not replace us but accompanies us in the regenerated state--through His Spirit.
    "The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us" -MJS

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    Quote Originally Posted by NetChaplain View Post
    Amen Bo - I like seeing it as same spirit and soul; same person-hood, but with new nature ("new man") which produces a renewed mind (Rom 12:2), which is of Christ (1 Cor 2:16; Phil 2:5). He did not want to replace us but renew us, as Christ does not replace us but accompanies us in the regenerated state--through His Spirit.
    I agree in spirit... but biblically speaking the soul (mind, emotions, thoughts, volition) are independent from the spirit, the spirit and soul are considered two separate entities. While it states in Genesis that man became a living soul after the breath of God (spirit from God) came into him (Gen 2:7) the bible plainly delineates man into three parts. We were created in the image of a tripartite God. He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We are spirit, soul, and body.

    Red Emphasis Mine:
    1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    It seems the Holy Spirit's job to separate the soulish (fleshly) from the spiritual.

    Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

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    The old man is your old self, the nature of independent self and sin, derived from our first father Adam. Adam was the first one to get an independent nature of self and sin.. where die he get it from? When he ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he did not only sin and incur God's justice, he declared his independence from God, and knowledge of good and evil corrupted him. So in the old man, is the independent man, and the inherited sin from Adam, and the knowledge of good and evil. God is Spirit, and to be independent from God is the same as spiritual death. Spiritual death is when our spirit is not inhabited by the Spirit of God. For this reason the function of the spirit is mostly deadened and the only part that remains functioning to some extent is the human conscience. Because the spirit was deadened, the soul became the leading part of man's nature. The soul consists of the human mind (thoughts), emotions (feelings), and will (intents). The old man is your complete self nature consisting of the independent soul, the deadened spirit, and the physical body corrupted by sins effects (death, disease, etc).

    All religious folk live according to the old self, consisting of knowledge of good and evil. All people who are not born again live according to this sense of good and evil, some call it a moral compass, others call it ethics, call it what you will, it is from the tree of death. Some live more according to the good side of their nature than the bad.. these are called good people. Others live according to the bad side of their old man, these are bad people. Some, who are born again, live more according to the old nature than the new nature. They also attempt to keep God's requirements by their good nature, and see themselves as good Christian people.
    It doesn't matter if we are good or bad, it is still the old man living independently from God. But these are like those in Galatians, who live by the law not the Spirit. In order to have life, we need to partake of the true vine, Christ, who is also the tree of life.

    The old man was your old husband, he was crucified on the cross (Rom 6:6) and you were freed from your old marriage bond (the law), and joined to your new husband Christ. New man is your new self, consisting of yourself, all believers and Christ living together as one couple. This is pictured by the vine with many branches. The whole vine is Christ, the many branches are the individual members. By faith we were grafted into this vine, and so the life that flows through us is no longer the old life, but the new life which keeps the new self alive and functioning. Actually regeneration of your spirit, being born again... is simply the Holy Spirit joining to your fallen human spirit and your human spirit becomes alive. This is how we are grafted into the vine. Your old self is not replaced by a new self; Christ comes to join Himself to your old self, and because of Him, your new self is made alive.

    Now a little bit about grafting: When a plant is grafted, the plant is cut, there is a wound... and the plant to be grafted into.. is also cut. The wound on our side is our repentance in tears, the wound on Christ's side is His crucifixion. We could say that the nail scars Christ bares are like the grafting wounds, the wounds that He took so that we could be grafted into Him. If we graft a plant, we don't join the ends that have not been cut.. we join the cut ends.. the grafting and jointing into the vine takes place at the wounds...and out of the wounds of both plants is flowing the life.. our life is flowing out of the wound in our part.. and Christ's life is flowing out of the wound in His part.. when both lives are joined together at the wound.. then we share the one same life. Only when we come to the cross, and receive His life, and our life is joined to His, are we are grafted into Christ.

    For this reason we need firstly a personal fellowship with the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit, and because of this fellowship we also need fellowship with the other branches in the vine, other believers. If we lack either of these, our new self will not be very strong and living.


    2 Cor 5:17 "
    Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.".

    How do we know practically that we have this new life as part of the vine? First of all, we call God "Father", we have union with God, secondly we are no longer independent from Him, the fact that we pray, is testimony of our dependence upon God, thirdly, even though our old man still kicks and screams, it's dying on the cross, and we should see improvement in temperament and behavior over time, fourthly, we feel that we belong to something bigger than ourselves, this is the Body of Christ. If we ever have a sense of feeling for someone else, another believer, and might pray for them, this is proof that we are part of a very large vine. If we ever have the sense of "I must pray for this Christian brother or sister", this is proof that you are part of a vine.


    Last edited by james1523; 03-29-13 at 08:21 PM.

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