OK, let me start out by saying that I pray pretty much all day every day. My wife and I do a daily devotional and we pray together.

However, I have this friend who is going to seminary. I wont say the denomination. I had a long talk with her the other day and some of the things she said have caused me to really ponder.

I'm begging you. If you decide to reply to this thread please give me some beef, as it were. I really can't use rants based on emotions. Testimony is fantastic. Scripture is awesome.

So, my friend and I had a long talk. I explained to her that my life is in a free fall right now and everything seems to be broken or in the process of breaking. I asked her about prayer.

Why do we pray?

What does prayer do?

Does God intervene?

Does Satan and or, demons actually work to steal, kill and destroy?

You know, that kind of stuff.

She basically said that events in human reality are mostly the results of human decisions and although she wouldn't rule it out, she basically said God chooses to not get involved in human events. She said that almost all of what happens is the result of the decisions we all make, the weather, genetics, etc.. She said that God has chosen to pretty much observe and not get involved. What I heard her saying was that prayer is mostly a meaningless exercise.

If she were reading this she would deny that that was what she meant. But, at the same time she would say that God chooses not to intervene allowing human free will to decide the course of events. Her very general understanding seems to be that God's intervention ended, for the larger part, after Jesus' death, resurrection and assention. She said something to the effect of God's intervening act was salvation through the cross, and that's pretty much it.

As you can imagine it has created a bit of a crisis for me. Why? Good question.

Simply put, I need a God who is active and working in the world. I need a God who is alive and who cares. If that's not true then were no better off, in terms or daily living, than atheist.

Very good questions Falconbrother.
Let me first give you my belief on what prayer is for based on my own experiences with Father and studies of the scriptures.
Prayer is the main vehicle or venue where if we will listen, relax and not be in such a hurry to leave, Father aligns or adjusts us to His will and purpose. This explains why so many are confused, unsure or mistaken about God's will, plan and purpose today.

Look at Matt. 26:36-57, Jesus prays until He is align with Father's will. Read the account and ask HolySpirit to reveal the truth to you about prayer.

As far as your friend's beliefs concerning God's interaction with humanity, she has probably based this notion on her own lack of experience and relationship with God.

Hi, falconbrother.

I'm sure there are others here that are more qualified to answer your queries about prayer, so I would just like to discuss your friend's belief in Deism, which is an erroneous way to think of the Christian God. Deism is basically a form of Godliness but without the power thereof, and scripture is abundantly clear that God is very interested in His creation, especially His children.

Jeremiah 9:23-24 talks of how God wants us to know Him and that He delight in doing kindness, justice and righteousness on the earth.

Another argument against deism is Jesus' coming to the earth in the flesh and dwelling among us, which doesn't show disinterest in His creation!

There are many verses like in Psalm 50:15 ) "Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you and you shall glorify Me". Also :

Psalm 36:5-6
5 Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens, your faithfulness to the skies. 6 Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the great deep. O LORD, you preserve both man and beast.

And :

1 Peter 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”

Again, no signs here that God stepped back from His creation and is uninterested in it. All through the bible we can see how God time and again intervened to rescue His people, providing for them in the wilderness giving them manna and water, freeing the Israelites from their bondage to Egypt, opening the wombs of barren women, parting the Red Sea, etc. And right from the beginning we can see God come to Adam and Eve after they sinned to clothe them, while at the same time purposing to save us from our fallen sin nature at the appointed time by sending Jesus to die for their sins. Not to mention how God intervened at the tower of Babel, in Sodom and Gommorah and all of Jesus' healings He performed. God also made many covenants with His people, this is not something a disinterested Deistic God would do.

John 3:16 God loves the world.

Zephaniah 3:17
The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.....

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

1 Peter 5:6-7
Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.

In Jeremiah 29:11 we see how God has plans for us : For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Isaiah 54:10
10 Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed," says the LORD, who has compassion on you.

God even cares about oxen! Deuteronomy 25:4 : "You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain."

This is just a drop in the bucket to refute your friend's idea that God is not interested in His creation, so I hope she will reconsider her unbiblical stance about God as she endeavors to pursue her seminary studies.

To keep us in contact so as to further us along in our kinship with the Lord.

Originally Posted by falconbrother

Why do we pray?

What does prayer do?

Does God intervene?

Does Satan and or, demons actually work to steal, kill and destroy?

Jesus prayed to the Father all the time. He is our example.

Luk_21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luk_22:40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

Luk_22:46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

Joh_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh_16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

Joh_17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Joh_17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Joh_17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

If Jesus prayed, then we are supposed to pray as well. Only God looks at our heart motive, and honors those prayers said through those who are doing His will. Is the prayer said in the mindset of only getting what is wanted as in building our own kingdom, or is there a specific reason for that prayer based on the character and will of God found in the scriptures?

I believe that God works and intervenes in the lives of those who are His. He is over all things, and no, Satan cannot do whatever he wants. Our call and duty is to take a stand against evil by prayer and action when called or needed, and stand up for good by prayer and action when needed. God honors and upholds the prayers of a righteous man. Don't let anyone tell you differently because faith mixed with prayer is what God says to do. Unbelief will send you down a cliff in no time.

God not always is Johnny on the spot when answering though right? Abraham had to wait 20 years before his son was born. David had to wait before the reality of being a king was bestowed upon him after he was annointed as being the King of Israel by Samuel. A Savior was born in a stable how long after that event was promised and prophesied in the OT. God's timeline is sometimes hard to understand, and we are naturally not very patient creatures. We want what we want when we want it, and that usually means NOW!

Anyone who has been on the prayer journey for any length of time will tell you that God's answers usually don't come in the way that is expected, but in hindsight they are always on time, and the way things turn out are always the best way even if it doesn't feel or look good walking through.

Keep with prayer, stay in the word, and in all things acknowledge Him. Even if at times you don't feel that He is doing anything, acknowledge that He is working in your life, and in your family's life. All for the good.

Well, I can tell you that God has recently answered a huge prayer for us.

My wife is facing some big health issues that we are praying about right now. We're trusting God on that too.

Originally Posted by falconbrother

Well, I can tell you that God has recently answered a huge prayer for us.

My wife is facing some big health issues that we are praying about right now. We're trusting God on that too.

That's so awesome, praise God! Yes, He is so trustworthy!

Due to the Lord not changing the free will He gives us, and the stewardship of the world He promised us (even though we gave it away in a large part to satan)... God does not intervene unless its critical to our development as a race of humans. That being said, we humans were given the promise that the Lord would help us if we needed it sometimes above and beyond what is "needed" for sustainability of our race and our relationship with Him. If we ask Him for something, there are two parts of His responding Will to our prayers. One is if its within His perfect Will (which only GOD knows in its fullness), it definately will be done. The other is if its within His flexible will of His long term goals still being met, and going beyond our basic needs and needed intervention. In a nutshell, God will sometimes do things He woudnt do in His perfect will UNLESS we pray asking for something not "needed" (even if we think its needed-our physical needs are less important than our spiritual needs... this life is but temporary), but He is willing to do for us, because He loves us, and it wont thwart His long term plans for us.

Does that make sense to you all?

Jesus said pray to the Father in secret, and He will reward you openly.

So, do we listen to this girl, or Jesus? It is quite obvious that for all her learning, the truth has escaped her. The position she takes is one that allows her to escape the difficult questions such as; Why did the child die? Why suffering? etc. When Paul wrote "Behold the goodness and severity of God..." he was not hiding from the harsh realities of life, yet prayed without ceasing! Did God intervene? Yes! During the shipwreck at Melita, "This night the Lord stood by me..." For Peter when he was in prison by Herod, Prayer was made for him and the Angel of the Lord released his chains taking him to the street. For John, when he was exiled at Patmos, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day..."

Jesus promised he walks among the churches, so I will go with Jesus!

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; ...

He walks among the churches, we must ask him to walk in our hearts and believe he does.

Originally Posted by Brad Huber

Does that make sense to you all?

God honors prayers of those who are functioning in His Kingdom. Even when mistakes are made, He does work all things for good. Here is an article that seems to fit here...

The Kingdom of God

Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

We are told here to seek first the Kingdom of God and all of our necessities will be added unto us. If we are to seek the Kingdom it would only make sense to understand how to become a citizen of the Kingdom, and to know what responsibilities are required for the functioning of the Kingdom.

First we will look at why it is possible for us to even become citizens of the Kingdom.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

After the fall of Adam, the rulership of the earth changed. Satan gained control over the earth and imprisioned the souls of men. His authority would not be usurped until the perfect sacrifice of Jesus on Clavary.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Jesus redeemed the lost souls that were held under the power of Satan. Jesus trampled underfoot all the powers and principalities of this world and snatched us from the pit of hell. Jesus bought and paid for each soul by His blood, and Satan’s power over us has been rendered useless. The work has been finished and Jesus has won the victory. Even though Satan is still able to harass us and make life difficult, his power over our souls has been rendered useless. Our sentence before a holy God is guilty. Everyone sins and falls short of the Glory of God, and the punishment is death. The only reason we are able to enter into the Kingdom is because Jesus died in our place, and God counted it as paid in full.
Now we will look at what we must do to become a citizen of the Kingdom of God.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Because Jesus has redeemed our souls we now have the opportunity to become citizens of the Kingdom of God. Jesus himself tells us we are able to enter into the Kingdom by believing in him. Paul also wrote in Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Jesus told us here that we are to repent of our sins, and believe the gospel in order for us to enter into the Kingdom of God. To repent of sins means to turn from what we are doing and go a different direction. It is a determination and willingness on our part to cease and desist from doing that which is contrary to his commandments. Once this willingness is seen, He is faithful to create a newness within us to make it possible for us to experience a permanent change.

It is possible to enter into the Kingdom because of the sacrifice of Jesus. We become citizens of the Kingdom when we repent of our sins, and put our faith in God’s only Son that was sent to redeem our souls.
Next we will look at what our responsibilities are once we become citizens of the Kingdom of God.
To show the heart of how the Kingdom of God operates we will look at a piece of a letter that Paul wrote to the Corinthians.

2Co 8:1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2Co 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
2Co 8:3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
2Co 8:4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
2Co 8:5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.

Paul is telling the church at Cornith about how the church at Macedonia was functioning. He said that they were abundantly joyous in their deep poverty and affliction. This attitude toward their plight caused them to be generous with what they had.
Because of this ministering to the saints in generosity, and giving themselves to the Lord, God saw fit to give them the power (gifts) to further the Kingdom.

2Co 8:6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
2Co 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

Paul tells them that they excel in keeping the faith, teaching and learning, and are disciplined in all of the things that Titus had taught them. They also were commended for their love toward those that had taught them, but they were falling short in the grace that God had bestowed upon Macedonia. They lacked the power (gifts) to further the Kingdom of God.

2Co 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be
rich.
2Co 8:10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
2Co 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.

Seems as if there were reports about the church at Cornith that caused Paul to question the sincerity of their love for one another. He reminds them of the love that Jesus showed by becoming poor for their sakes. He implored them to be doing some kind of work with what they had, and to do it out of a willing heart. It seems as if he was a little disappointed that they were not farther in applying what they had been taught.

2Co 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want:
that there may be equality:
2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

Now we are at the heart of the workings of the Kingdom. Once we are a citizen of the Kingdom of God, we are expected not only to read the Word of God but to act upon what it says.
It first takes a willing mind to give out of our abundance. Anyone can give grudgingly, but to give willingly is blessed. God requires a cheerful giver in order to bestow the power necessary to further the Kingdom.
Notice here that it is not required to give something that we do not have, but something that we have an overflow of. Paul talks about gathering, and did not condemn the efforts of providing for one's family, or of gathering extra to be a blessing. If in this gathering we do not break the law of God it can be used to relieve the poverty of others. In this way all of the necessities are met.
Jesus summed this concept up in Mat 22 when he was talking about the law of the Kingdom:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Kingdom of God is based on love. Love God first and above all, and then everyone else. When we are operating out of love we are keeping all of the laws.
So we see that when we become citizens of the Kingdom of God, and work within the way it is designed to function by loving God and loving one another as ourselves, that all of our needs will indeed be met.