Another thing bgsda did you know that spiritual Babylon is all these worldly religions that preach everything else except Jesus Christ
The Baptism in Jesus Christ mighty name
The Baptism of the Holy Ghost

People who promote legalism always quote from Matthew and James.

It escapes their notice that Jesus was talking to the Jews under the
law. So what will be the topic of discussion, the law.

When one reads the letters Paul wrote to the Gentile churches
the law is absent. Funny that!

Legalism is not just a mistake, it is the greatest heresy that
has plagued the church since the apostles.

A Gentile never was under the law.

We are Gentiles and follow the decision of the apostles
at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). Avoid sexual
immorality at all cost. Our Holy Spirit sanctifies us.

Our Gospel grants full forgiveness, full atonement.

Grace is a gift to us from God, we boast in Jesus
and nothing else.

Hey bgsda explain one of the grand doctrines of
the SDA, investigative judgement.

Your audience waits attentively.

Hello C4E. Well the mark of the beast is explained further in Rev.13. If you was to read that you'll be able to see that all the devil wants is worship. Look how many times its mentioned. If you was to go online to any website about the Catholic church and them changing the True Sabbath(Saturday) to Sunday you would see that they(the popes) say that thier Mark of Authority is that they did in fact changed Gods Law and they boast about it. This was prophecied in( Dan.7:25)" And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to changetimes and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times

We are supposed to be Protestant, IDK if you ever studied the Reformation, but in the past Christians protested against the Papacy because of their oppression and false doctrines. The Catholic church nowadays laugh at how many people still call themselves Protestants but" are like their child because they go on Sunday, a day that the Popes changed because the Pope is supposed to be God on earth.

So if many will hold on to going on Sunday, because of everyone else is going on Sunday(tradition), with no biblical support at all and are following the Papacy(Catholic Churches) mark of authority yes that is the Mark of the Beast. Yes there are alot of far out non-biblical counts of the Mark of the Beast. Some believe its a literal mark like tattos or a chip. If we were to look at it biblicaly in Duet.6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down , and when thou risest up . 8 And thou shalt bind them for a SIGN upon thine HAND, and they shall be as FRONTLETS between thine EYES. Its just simply to obey God and His Commandments

Remember the great "I AM" is God the Father, God the Son, God the holy Spirit. So it was Jesus who wrote the Ten Commandments not once but twice. So this is important as characteristics of Gods end time church or people. They will be doing what 3 angels in Rev.14 is telling us to do. Worship our Creator warn about the judgement that is in session and warn others about the MArk of the beast. God Bless

David so when do you want me to break into your house and rob you? Or when is a good time to kill you? Better yet if you are married then its ok to sleep with your wife, right its done away with we can do those things. You have to understand that the Law is written for our good. He loves us so much that He gave us those for our own good. Let me go back to worship to this image I have here at my home because we are FREEEEEE.

If we stand on the second commandment that Jesus gave in Mark 12 vs 31 (And the second is like,namely this,Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.There is none other commandment greater than these.)
Bgsda if we keep this commandment we will not kill,steal,or want to sleep with someone's wife,If we love our neighbors as ourselves we will not do anything to harm them or bring pain into their lives
,
Besides this commandment alone sums up all evil doing to your neighbor,wheather it be killing,stealing,coveting,etc.....
This is why the ten commandments have been done away with
All you have to do is the first two commandments Jesus gave in Mark ch 12vs 29-31 and everything else will follow in a Godly manner

Bgsda what you are teaching is false doctrine,the mark allows one to buy and sell after the Antichrist has risen

Revelations ch 13 vs 16 (And he causeth all,both small and great,rich and poor,free and bond,to receive a mark in their right hand,or in their foreheads:) 17 (And no man might buy or sell,save he that had the mark,or the name of the beast,or the number of his name.)

Last time i checked i was able to buy and sell any day of the week,
Yhere has to be a mark that can be seen or else how would they know who has it and who does not
And if you do not have Bible Scripture back your posts please quit posting

My God who is teaching you this

Originally Posted by bgsda

David so when do you want me to break into your house and rob you? Or when is a good time to kill you? Better yet if you are married then its ok to sleep with your wife, right its done away with we can do those things. You have to understand that the Law is written for our good. He loves us so much that He gave us those for our own good. Let me go back to worship to this image I have here at my home because we are FREEEEEE.

You are under civil law bgsda, that is why you cannot do
what you wish you could do.

You may have noticed that telling someone not to do
something wrong does not seem to work very well.

That is the problem with the law, it is a superficial as it
does not cure the fundamental problem which is the
sinful nature.

God has given us the Holy Spirit, placed into a new
creation. Our Holy Spirit guides us in all important
matters, and keeps our attention on Jesus Christ.

If you had the Holy Spirit then you would have been
talking about Jesus Christ. Not diverting attention
away from Jesus and towards the Mosaic law.

The law was given to Israel that is what is stated
in the scriptures.

Originally Posted by bgsda

Hello C4E. Well the mark of the beast is explained further in Rev.13. If you was to read that you'll be able to see that all the devil wants is worship. Look how many times its mentioned.

Yes there are alot of far out non-biblical counts of the Mark of the Beast. Some believe its a literal mark like tattos or a chip. If we were to look at it biblicaly in Duet.6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down , and when thou risest up . 8 And thou shalt bind them for a SIGN upon thine HAND, and they shall be as FRONTLETS between thine EYES. Its just simply to obey God and His Commandments

Originally Posted by truth speaker

Revelations ch 13 vs 16 (And he causeth all,both small and great,rich and poor,free and bond,to receive a mark in their right hand,or in their foreheads:) 17 (And no man might buy or sell,save he that had the mark,or the name of the beast,or the number of his name.)

This is for both of you Brothers in Christ Jesus,

I've deleted the unnecessary verbiage to get to the meat. I can agree that Catholicism has corrupted the Word of God, so much so, that Salvation is something to be worked for and achieved only by one who is Catholic. It would require more time and posting to delve into the subject of Catholicism & the Reformation.

The following is not something I've not previously used or thought of, but provide now for both of your considerations.

Now to tie in the Mark of the Beast to them (Catholicism) as an act of deceit or deception on their parts on a spiritual level only bgsda, and not associated in some fashion to as Truth speaker mentioned in his post of Revelation 13:16-18, that implies rather strongly that a mark that is associated also with commodities, which is the buying and selling of goods would be only using a preference to support a particular position which might not be what is intended to be revealed to us by the Holy Spirit for understanding. Is it possible that the position you bgsda are suggesting, and the one by Truth Speaker, might both be valid if taken jointly? That the spiritual death achieved by rejection of God by the acceptance of the Mark of the Beast, whereby the physical act seals the non-believer just as the Holy Spirit has sealed the believer, insuring the spiritual alienation from God for eternity a possibility to be considered? Keeping in mind that all that Satan does is counterfeit to God's plan of Salvation as the foundation for this possibility.

Your thoughts brothers?

YBIC
C4E

Because we are in the middle of calving season I haven't had the time to contribute to this thread, as much as I would have liked to. I have however read a few of the posts and would like to clarify something which I am sure bgsda (as another adventist such as I) would agree with. I am stating this just in case some readers may be confused, or led to believe different. The subject of the thread is 'the true church'. As an Adventist I want to state unequivocally that although I am convinced totally that my church follows the scriptures about as close as one can get, (otherwise I wouldn't be one) the SDA denomination does not have an exclusive hold on 'truth'.
There are, and EG White wrote the same, many many Christians in all denominations, all following their Saviour and living according to what light has been given them. Truth is progressive. Some are unable to handle some truths, others can. The apostles even were unable to take in everything the Lord would have liked to have given them, they had to wait until such time as they were in a state to manage the responsibility and burden. Yes, I said burden (albeit an awesome one), because with truth comes resposibility, for to him to whom much is given, much is required.

I would dearly love to add more, but do not have the time. Grace and law are favourite subjects of mine...they are not exclusive, but are in perfect harmony with one another. And the mark of the beast? I have written much on the subject of the beast already (thread "Were they right") and very few accepted that clear evidence. If one does not accept the obvious identity of the beast, how can they know his mark? Kia ora koutou.

Originally Posted by jiggyfly

Like I said earlier I disagree, using the KJV as a reference especially in this case is not wise considering many of the errors within the translation.

If there is a "form of worship" evidenced within the scriptures, it is simply in spirit and in truth as Jesus said. We are to be led by HolySpirit not liturgy or tradition.

21 Dear friends, if we don’t feel guilty, we can come to God with bold confidence.22 And we will receive from him whatever we ask because we obey him and do the things that please him.
23 And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.24 Those who obey God’s commandments remain in fellowship with him, and he with them. And we know he lives in us because the Spirit he gave us lives in us.
1 John 3:21-24 (NLT)

Obviously we disagree on many things concerning the meanings and interpretation of scriptures but setting that aside, I believe what Paul said is vital to our discussion.

1 Whatever happens, my dear brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord. I never get tired of telling you these things, and I do it to safeguard your faith.
2 Watch out for those dogs, those people who do evil, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved.3 For we who worship by the Spirit of God are the ones who are truly circumcised. We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort,4 though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more!
5 I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law.6 I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.
7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done.8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ9 and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.10 I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death,11 so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead!
Phil 3:1-11 (NLT)

Many will argue for the word "worship", saying that the Scriptures say that Jesus should be "worshipped", as at Hebrews 1:6, though the Greek word pro·sky·ne´o also means "to prostrate one's self, to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence...hence in the N.T.(New Testament) by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication."(Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 548)

Jesus used the word "worship" in speaking with the Samaritan woman at the well near Sychar. In this case, it applied strictly to God, and in which Jesus included himself in worshipping him, saying: "You worship (Greek proskyneite) what you do not know; we worship (Greek proskynoumen) what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers (Greek proskynetai) will worship (Greek proskynesousin) the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship (Greek proskynountas) him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping (Greek proskynountas) him must worship (Greek proskynein) with spirit and truth.”(John 4:22-24)

Thus, all worship belongs to the Father, Jehovah God, for Jesus told Satan: "Go away, Satan! For it is written (at Deut 5:9 and 10:20), ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (Matt 4:10)

The one true religion or "one faith" (Eph 4:5) that Jesus established thus worships the Father, Jehovah God, as Jesus taught and did. He set the pattern for his disciples to follow in worshipping the "one true God", Jehovah, saying in prayer to his Father: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3)

Hence, those who follow in Jesus "footsteps" (1 Pet 2:21), will also worship the Father, Jehovah. These will make an earnest effort to ' take in knowledge of the only true God ', Jehovah (and his Son), and not keep him nameless, as basically the churches have done with titles such "Lord" or "God".

These will follow the "form of worship" (or religion) that Jesus established, whereby "the true worshipers will worship the Father (Jehovah) with spirit and truth."(John 4:23)