This passage is one of the most abused and least understood passages in the Bible.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace = Charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Grace is indeed a free gift but what sort of gift is it?

Grace is the divine influence on the heart of man and grace teaches us.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The grace of God BRINGS salvation when we put it to use through faith. Faith is the working principle that activates grace in our lives. Faith is the DOING part or the WORK that we must do.

This is why Paul wrote...

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

You see we are to WORK TOGETHER with God otherwise we receive grace to NO EFFECT.

God is the AUTHOR of salvation not us, yet we MUST OBEY and yield to the working of the author in us. If you don't obey you will not be saved.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Look at what James wrote...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

You are a doer of the word when you are obeying God thus being a worker together with Him.

Compliments of Scott Wilson

I'm not sure what this post is getting at? How exactly is Ephesians 2:8-10 the most abused and least understood passage in the Bible?

Most use these verses to try and prove we are saved by faith alone, as Martin Luther who was a false teacher proclaimed, they confuse works of the law with an obedient faith, coming from a pure heart.

I hope you understand how many in the false church use these verses out of context to try and prove a false salvation message.

We work with troubled teens (and even more troubled adults) who are in recovery from addictions, abusive relationships, and a slew of other problems that many churches in the area only give pat answers and pandering acknowledgements to. The way we summarize the Gospel message to people who have an honest-to-goodness attention span of about 30 seconds is this: "It's just Jesus--there is no 'and.'"

It's not, "Jesus and fasting," or, "Jesus and tithing," or, "Jesus and the Westminster Confession." Christ and Christ alone is the only route to Heaven, the only way to the Father, the one and only name under Heaven by which we must be saved.

If you love Jesus, you will emulate Him.
If you love Jesus, then you will seek Him.
If you love Jesus, then you fill find Him.
If you love Jesus, then He will come in to you and dine with you, and you with him--forever.

Just Jesus. There is no 'and.' Anyone who says otherwise is singing a different tune.

Originally Posted by Green Berean

We work with troubled teens (and even more troubled adults) who are in recovery from addictions, abusive relationships, and a slew of other problems that many churches in the area only give pat answers and pandering acknowledgements to. The way we summarize the Gospel message to people who have an honest-to-goodness attention span of about 30 seconds is this: "It's just Jesus--there is no 'and.'"

It's not, "Jesus and fasting," or, "Jesus and tithing," or, "Jesus and the Westminster Confession." Christ and Christ alone is the only route to Heaven, the only way to the Father, the one and only name under Heaven by which we must be saved.

If you love Jesus, you will emulate Him.
If you love Jesus, then you will seek Him.
If you love Jesus, then you fill find Him.
If you love Jesus, then He will come in to you and dine with you, and you with him--forever.

Just Jesus. There is no 'and.' Anyone who says otherwise is singing a different tune.

Please address the verses I included, you are teaching a false message of hope to these lost teens, where did Jesus say faith alone, we do nothing, and faith is just a passive trust in Jesus alone? You do not get saved IN your sins, Jesus preached repentance and faith proven by deeds, which is something we do

These lost teens need to come to repentance, then obey Jesus from the heart, made pure by faith, it is explained well in my first post.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Telling them and the lost masses they can come into the kingdom still in bondage to sin, isn't being honest with them,I know most hate this message, call it works salvation, and scoff at the narrow road to the cross, but this is what the gospel message is all about, Jesus is calling all of us to repent, obey, and follow Him on the narrow road, not accept Him, and confess your are a sinner, then He will clean you up later, this is a dead faith.

Preach repentance to these teens, as well as the lost church, as Jesus and the profits of old did, man has free will and ability to do this, either the sin stops in repentance or the heart hardens, you do not come into the kingdom still defiled!

repentance unto salvation!



Repentance is an urgent desire to change! (2 Corinthians 7:11) You believe from your heart. You obey to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:32) He comes into a clean vessel. A heart made pure by faith (obedience) Acts 15:9) you obey and keep obeying, daily, to keep your heart pure and undefiled from the world! (1 Peter 1:22) That's how it works! Genuine repentance involves humility, brokenness and is a humiliating experience. When the true light of God's word floods into your soul, you see yourself as you are, in rebellion to God! This is what godly sorrow is all about. Deep regret for your sin's, a season of sorrow, leading to salvation! (2 Corinthians 7:10) not getting saved in your disobedience and sin's, but out of them, through true repentance first where the flesh is crucified with Christ, and put to death! (Galatians 2:20) cleansed to receive the Holy Spirit!

Now you got salvation!

If the true gospel was preached right from the beginning we wouldnt be having this disagreement,

Instant salvation!

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world thatHe gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perishbut have everlasting life.
There seems to be a strong trend inmodern Christianity today that the saving of one’s soul is about the same asdriving through a fast food restaurant! Its instant, fast, no waiting, and adone deal when all is said and done.
Is this what Jesus and the apostlestaught though? Are you sure all you have to do is say a little prayer, confess youare a sinner, naming your sins, and then asking Jesus into your heart?
How you answer these questions willhave a great effect on your eternal destiny.
The whole process of salvation istotally backwards today, and the multitudes gather around the podium, stage, orchurch pew, and just accept, and receive Jesus into their heart, the pastorthen tells them they are declared saved, all sins are forgiven, past, presentand future, and they are secure in Christ, because Jesus took their place, istheir obedience, and they can then boast to the world, they are the chief ofsinners still, just like Paul described in Roman Ch 7!
This is the message the churches,ministries, radio stations, music artists, etc,, are preaching, and many soulsare buying it hook, line and sinker, no questions asked, they are secure noworries!
I believed in this false message formany years, while I basked in my flesh, and worldly attractions, living adouble minded life, with one foot in the world and another in the church,kidding myself I was saved and going to Heaven because the pastor told me so,and who am I to question him! He went to seminary, told great jokes and jocularstories every Sunday morning as I went to do my duty, then spend the rest ofthe day indulging myself in sports, beer, and food. What a life, I was saved INmy sins and disobedience, having my cake and eating it too, even though I wasdead to God and His word.
But as I soon woke up, I realized therewas another gospel being preached by a few brave souls, that said the messagewas wrong, that salvation wasn't instant, and that there was more on my part todo, to be sure I was on the narrow path to life.
I learned I needed to go and do myfirst works, Rev 2:5 Therefore remember from whereyou have fallen, and repent, and do the first works, or else I will come to youquickly and will remove your lamp stand out of its place unless you repent.
And depart from iniquity, seek firstHis Kingdom, abstain from all appearances of evil, repent or perish, hold fast,stand firm, come out from the world, love not the world and its vainattractions, forsake my flesh and be diligent in the word of God, that bearinggood fruit was more than doing good works at the church, or helping the ladyacross the street, I had to live a life worthy of my calling.
Good fruit,as listed in the word. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace,long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with itspassions and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Now the fruit of the spirit goes beyond doing good works of the flesh it iscalling each of us to forsake our flesh, and walk IN the spirit, thus producinggood fruit, out of a true repentant heart, made pure through repentance andfaith proven by deeds, 2 Cor 7-10-11.
Good fruit automatically comes from aheart that has gone through a crisis of conviction, followed by a season ofgodly sorrow, leading to salvation! Which will lead to the fruit of repentancethat is missing from the simple, A,B,C, plan of instant salvation.
Apart from repentance, where the heartis cleared of all wrong doing, guile, evil, deceit, etc,,,there is no remissionof sins, Jesus said to go and sin no more, thus good fruit is contingent on atruly repentant heart, that has been circumcised by the spirit, putting todeath the flesh, and walking before God cleansed and purged from all known sinthat leads to death.
Then salvation becomes more likeprobation, contingent on our walking in the ligh t1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we havefellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses usfrom all sin. , , bearing good fruitas listed above, and growing more in the light and truth as God leads usthrough the spirit of truth. But if the heart is still defiled, and the sinstill remains, as in the easy plan suggests, then it will be impossible for Godto give you more light and knowledge, because you are still IN sin, doubleminded, loving the world more than God, and unable to understand truth as Hereveals it to you!
We must endure to the end to be saved, Mat 10:22 And you will be hated of all men for My name's sake, butthe one who endures to the end shall be kept safe .Count the cost, Luk 14:28 For which ofyou, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost,whether he may have enough to finish it; and know that the initial salvation granted to us by God, can belost if we choose to fall away from the faith, seek our own, and turn fromdoing righteousness! Eze 18:26 When arighteous one turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and diesin them; for his iniquity that he has done, he shall die .But there is a way out: Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked turns away from his wickednessthat he has committed and does that which is lawful and righteous, he shallsave his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he looks carefully, andturns away from all his sins that he has committed, he shall surely live; heshall not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet says the house of Israel: The way of Jehovah is not fair. O houseof Israel, are not My ways fair? Are not your ways unfair?
Eze 18:30 So I will judge you, O house of Israel, each one of you according tohis ways, says the Lord Jehovah. Turn and be made to turn from all your sins; and iniquity shall not be your stumbling-block.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your sins by which you have sinned; and makeyou a new heart and a new spirit; for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no delight in the death of him who dies, says the LordJehovah. Therefore turn and live.
Turn and live, a powerful statementfrom almighty God, not heard much in the false liberal gospel today, but maybea few will adhere to this message, and take it to heart, leading many out of bondageand into freedom!
Tommy 3-12-12

Originally Posted by Tommy061

This passage is one of the most abused and least understood passages in the Bible.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace = Charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Grace is indeed a free gift but what sort of gift is it?

Grace is the divine influence on the heart of man and grace teaches us.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The grace of God BRINGS salvation when we put it to use through faith. Faith is the working principle that activates grace in our lives. Faith is the DOING part or the WORK that we must do.

This is why Paul wrote...

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

You see we are to WORK TOGETHER with God otherwise we receive grace to NO EFFECT.

God is the AUTHOR of salvation not us, yet we MUST OBEY and yield to the working of the author in us. If you don't obey you will not be saved.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Look at what James wrote...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

You are a doer of the word when you are obeying God thus being a worker together with Him.

Compliments of Scott Wilson

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


If our salvation was based on our behavior than why did Jesus die?

Originally Posted by Tommy061

Most use these verses to try and prove we are saved by faith alone, as Martin Luther who was a false teacher proclaimed, they confuse works of the law with an obedient faith, coming from a pure heart.

I hope you understand how many in the false church use these verses out of context to try and prove a false salvation message.

Yes context is very important but is context always important? Should scripture always be kept within context to understand it properly? I think so, but am interested in what you believe.

It is indeed by faith alone, and yet true faith will always bear fruit- the works are but the evidence of abiding in Christ which can be achieved only as an outward expression of faith. Salvation is not in the fruit born but is evidenced by that fruit. The following scripture places the whole works/faith thing in proper context:
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Works are good, even necessary, but not the basis of our salvation.

To look at it from another direction:

1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Works accomplished by faith in Christ (empowered by the Holy Spirit) are gold, silver, precious stones and will have eternal value.
Works done in the strength and leading of the flesh are but flesh (Joh 3:6) and will be consumed by the fire of God's judgement for (1Co 1:29 ) no flesh may glory in His presnece ; and yet that precious one in Christ shall still be saved (in spite of the lack of remaining works)

Also note this, for this is where many seem to miss their calling:
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

These foreordained works are the works which He prepared, they are the works of the Father(Joh 10:32 ) and like Jesus His Son we should only do His works and that only at the Holy Spirit's lead, only in His power.
Try as one might the works of his own religious efforts (works of the flesh) are never acceptable to God (Psa 147:10-11).

Yeah, I think I'm done talking to people on here when they're only interested in picking a fight. For the record, Tommy, I wasn't disagreeing with you, so get off your high horse.