The "works" that bear fruit in Christ are "works" that can only be done by someone who has faith in Christ and God. Being a "good" person is not what is being spoken of here. A person needs true faith in Christ to bear real fruit in Christ, the fruitless trees will be cut down and burned in the end because they were fruitless. No one can bear good fruit unless they abide in Christ, as we are told in the Gospel of John.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Luke 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

Luke 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

Luke 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

Luke 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Who would you say the "dresser of the vineyard" in this parable is?

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

What is fruit, and do we play ANY part in obtaining this fruit?

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Does not both the husband and the wife play their part in bearing fruit of their marriage?

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. ( Which is sin, which we do play a part in )

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Titus 3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

II Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

II Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

II Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

II Peter 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

II Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

II Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The scriptures state that suffering teaches obedience, and that Christ, Himself learned obedience through suffering. So then is obedience the fruit of love or is it the fruit of suffering?

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Looks to me like one learns obedience through suffering and love from obedience.

But suffering what?

I Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

And keeping with the Lord's commandments allows one to achieve being "ceased from sin".

Originally Posted by bgsda

TRUE love will bring obedience. Obedience will be shown by what you do. What you do is either good works or bad works or fruits or conduct. Jesus stated that in John 15:16" You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you". Jesus did works John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. See the Jews hated God and Jesus cause they did not bear good fruit or works or conduct. Well I see that this is going nowhere cause its obvious that faith alone without works is dead. James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Then by Inspiration he gives 2 examples that even my 6 year old kids can understand James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Theres no more to say. I am not the Holy Spirit to convict you guys of this matter. We are told thru Scripture very plainly on this matter. I just pray that you guys would yield to God and not to man. God bless and my prayers are with you all.

you do need the holy spirit to understand scriptures and I don't think you have clear picture what James is really talking about here.
our human mind can easily do a trick on us. you should get more Holy spirit to understand what James is saying.

or read some already posted good explanations on james.


God bless

jari i see now that you got to the point to say that James is not clear to you and my daughters undersand that ages 12, 9. Jari I believe that you are set in your ways whether pride or traditions of man. but Jesus said Matt 11:25At that time Jesus answered and said , I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. see god wants us to come to him as a babe or child. One without pre-conceived ideas. Without being taught about traditions. The Bible is very clear there CANNOT be any confusion or contradiction in Scriptures. Im not boasting or trying to let you down but you need to hear the truth.
i remember one time I left the WOF church that i was in cause i was not learning anything but what jesus owes us and can give us. you know the prospewrity preaching if you do this youll get that. when i left there and really started to read the bible and got instructed how to and led by the Holy Spirit. my wife stayed there cause she liked it there and was deceived and still is by that pastor now "bishop". Well we got into a little disagreement and she called up an elder from there who i knew. So we where on the phone she was trying to explain something about what she was taught not biblical so I asked her a question and pointed to a text. she had no words then she said " are you trying to tell me that you are going to know more than me, you know im a minister and you are only a Christian for 2 yrs and so on". Im not boasting because i am nothing without Christ. Im afraid jari I see that in you. A part of us dont want to admit what we been learning and teaching for x num. of years was not true. come to christ as a child. You can place a 4 yr old in a nursery or in a park and they will play with anybody or anything. Wait till they grow up and start getting pre-conceived ideas in their minds and they will pick and choose what or with whom the'll play with. Whether tey've been taught that homosexuals are abominations or blacks are mean or whatever. you understand what im saying. I love you Jari and I'll keep you in my prayers but thers alot of people not just you that have been taught wrong and need to do what Paul said best in 2 tim 2:. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. This is a matter of life and death. Also we dont have to be HOLY to understand what James said. Read it a couple of times. Pray before you do.

those statements about homosexuals and blacks were not my opinions it was just there to make a point. Not true

This is really not so complicated as to warrant 15 pages of bickering.

If you believe something, then you're going to follow through with it. If you acknowledge something but don't follow through with it, then you don't really believe it.

Pride may require a greater exposition, but truth does not.

Originally Posted by bgsda

jari i see now that you got to the point to say that James is not clear to you and my daughters undersand that ages 12, 9. Jari I believe that you are set in your ways whether pride or traditions of man. but Jesus said Matt 11:25At that time Jesus answered and said , I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. see god wants us to come to him as a babe or child. One without pre-conceived ideas. Without being taught about traditions. The Bible is very clear there CANNOT be any confusion or contradiction in Scriptures. Im not boasting or trying to let you down but you need to hear the truth.

look you have it all wrong about me so stop guessing and making generalizations. i also understand james. it doesn't seem difficult at all.

in the end its just you relying on your interpreation of bible. which i have a different interpreation. so what your trying to do? make listen your interpreation?

i am sorry that you say bible doesnt have contradictions and offer view where bible is contradicted.
such view is inaccebtable because it falls right at first contradiction. so now you know why i am not interested in your view and believe its wrong.

Salvation, and all things attendant, are gifts from God.It is not something which can be worked for, earned, or in any fashion merited. It is not upon the basis of whether someone is "good" or "bad." The Holy Spirit sovereignly uses the message of Jesus Christ's life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, to enable an otherwise spiritually blind and deaf sinner to believe the Word in order to accept the Savior and thereby be regenerated--born again. It's supernatural; it's a miracle.

^{All is from the father of lights above.}

Ephesians 1

¹³ In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—
having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise...

Listening to the message of the gospel and believing results in justification.

At this point is when the Holy Spirit is given by God to us.

Justification is not possible any other way than thru Jesus.

We wear the righteousness of Christ, not our own righteousness.

Works result from faith, and faith is a gift from God.

All is from above, all is the very gift of God, Grace.

Originally Posted by David777

Justification is not possible any other way than thru Jesus.

With this I agree.

Originally Posted by David777

We wear the righteousness of Christ, not our own righteousness.

I have a question. Jesus said that we should hunger and thirst for it, and that along with the kingdom of God, should make it a number one priority. (Matt. 6:33) So the question is, what is the righteousness of Christ?

Only one Righteousness for US! It though the Blood of JESUS!

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


We are All In the LORD !So It His Righteous we share with our LORD and Master and Savior!

1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

You understand ? Some scriptures are toward our Flesh Others toward our Etenal part , Our Spirit man!