People argue against the use of the term apostle to relate to anyone other than the 12 first disciples (I assume including Matthias rather than Judas). Seeing many of the groups that endorse the term apostle, coupled with their other beliefs, I can see why they would be reluctant. But if this is true, "by what authority" does Paul constantly refer to himself as an apostle (and seem to give a definition to the term in 1 Cor 9)?
Last edited by caprice09; 05-19-12 at 02:47 PM.
When a son of GOD speaks he speaks with GOD given authority. Was Paul wrong to say he was an apostle?Originally Posted by caprice09
Apostle
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
1) of Barnabas
2) of Timothy and Silvanus
from Strongs.
Did JESUS not send him out?
When it comes down to it...if you're walking in obedience to the WORD you could rightly call yourself an apostle.
Saul was the king Israel chose.
David was the king God chose.
Saul didn't quite work out.
Matthias was chosen by men. We don't hear anything about him after Acts 1.
Paul was chosen by God. (Acts 9:1-22)
(Rom 1:1; Rom 11:13; and 1Cor 1:1; and 1Cor 9:1; and 1Cor 15:9; Gal 1:1; Col 1:1; and 2Tim 1:1; and 1Tim 1:1; Tit 1:1)
Last edited by B-A-C; 05-19-12 at 09:06 PM.
*- BAC -*
Good answer BAC
When a son of GOD speaks he speaks with GOD given authority. Was Paul wrong to say he was an apostle?
A few years ago, I attended an independent Charismatic church that felt it needed to be connected with other churches of like mind. They joined a federation of churches headquartered in (one state) which was also connected with a Prophetic ministry in (another state). Not too long after we joined the federation, sermons began to be preached on the subject of respecting the authorities in the church. Along with this teaching came the admonition to call each person in any "five-fold ministry" by the title of that office. To show respect for the office, we now had to call the head of the federation of these churches "apostle." Those who were set into the office of prophet now were to be called by that title. Inside, I felt very uncomfortable about this turn of events. So now we had "Apostle Brown," Prophet Jones," "Evangelist Thomas," "Pastor James," etc. (Names changed.)
Most Christians would probably feel uncomfortable calling someone by the title of "apostle," but have little difficulty calling their pastor by the title "pastor." When studying the Scriptures, we find that the "gifts of men" which some call the "five-fold ministry" (others say four-fold) are not called by these titles. The Bible never says "the Apostle Paul." It says "Paul, an apostle." See Galatians 1:1, Tim. 1:1. Again, we never read of "Apostle Peter," but "Peter, an apostle." See 1 Peter 1:1 and 2 Peter 1:1. Equally, we find the terms "pastor or shepherd" and "evangelist," but we do not find anyone using these terms as a title attached to their common name
It would be rather foolish to call members of the body of Christ who are not in leadership positions titles such as "Layperson Jones," or "Sheep Brown." If this sounds foolish, then it should equally be foolish to put titles on these other offices. The world is full of foolishness built upon the foundation of pride. Titles, ribbons, medals, crests, outlandish uniforms and dress are things vain man seeks to fill his desire for glory.
If one is ordained by God (not some institution) to be a pastor or whatever, then they should walk out their calling. The calling will bring forth the fruit thereof. We have made it easy for counterfeits to enter into these roles by emphasis on government approved offices with proper licenses and titles and "orthodox" denominational affiliations. It is easy to buy a piece of paper which certifies one a "pastor." Is that what it's all about? I think not. They will know us by our fruit. If the fruit is there, the title is unnecessary, isn't it?
lawrenceb. You bring our some points that I fully agree with. The New Testament point out there are some who like being called high manes, and sit at the head tables. What was true then it is even more so today. Eneb though I am ordained, been pastor of four churches and all the other stuff, I never have liked being called Rev. or any other title, except Pastor. These titles that are taken or given, like bishop, Holy Rev, or the Most Holy, ar apostile are man made titles that to me are hard to accept as really being humble. If I am expected to address some religious person because they earned some title, and they insist on it, is outragious to me. Let me call true genuine Christians as brother or sister, is just plain and simple, and I address then so with respect. I am sure God loves that when we show love for onne another. I want to never lord my position or title over anyone. Just brother Farout is more than enough for me. Blessings
As we both discern, the only genuine ordination is that of the Lord....[Even] though I am ordained...
The titles religious men and women have heaped upon themselves are too numerous to mention in this short post. The Pope of the Roman Catholic Church seems to hold the title for most in number and greatest in arrogance. Perhaps the most arrogant of all his titles is the "Vicar of Christ." Vicar, according to Webster's Collegiate Dictionary means "a substitute in office." In this same dictionary under "Vicar of Christ" we read: "The Pope, regarded as head of the Church and representative on earth of Christ."These titles that are taken or given, like bishop, Holy Rev, or the Most Holy, ar apostile are man made titles that to me are hard to accept as really being humble. If I am expected to address some religious person because they earned some title, and they insist on it, is outragious to me.
The Scriptures declare Jesus Christ as Head of His body and there is nothing to indicate that He chose another human being to take His place as head of His body. It seems that Christians are running to this "Vicar," (substitute) head of the body of Christ in droves. Leading Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics are telling the sheep to return to Papa Pope for the sake of appearing united to the world. Billy Graham, Charles Colson, Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, and a host of other very visible non-Catholics are encouraging Christians to cuddle up to surrogate Father, the Papa, the Father of humanity. If you have ears to hear, then do more than listen.
Titles such as "Honorable," Most Honorable," "Reverend," "Most Reverend," "the Very Reverend," "Most Holy," are titles which have not carried over to many of the newer denominations of Christianity. But the root of this infatuation with titles is still with us and in some ways, perhaps still as dangerous.
Jesus Christ calls the entire body of Christ to be servants to the world. Why do we not claim the title "Servant?" A pastor is one who should serve spiritual food to his\her congregation. Are there pastors who have taken on the title "Cook" or "Waiter?" No! Why? They are not titles of honor. The title "pastor" carries much weight in many communities. Doors immediately open to people with that title without necessarily having the quality of character which the title points to. In my daily walk, I wear many hats. I am a husband, father, son, writer, consultant, editor, publisher, researcher, counselor, evangelist, janitor, computer operator, etc. These are things that I do or am on a regular basis. But why should I make any of them a title to my name? If I did, I am sure I would select the title which would give me the most honor. It is all foolishness and vanity.
If anyone has a particular place in the body of Christ, it should be manifested by the gift, office, or anointing which was given by the Holy Spirit, not by a title. We should judge whether a person is a prophet or an apostle by the evidence and confirmation from God, not by the title. It is one thing to go to an institution for a few years and buy a certificate entitling one to put "Pastor" or "Reverend" before their name. It is an entirely different thing to actually do the work of a pastor.
Now I know I may have created a tension as a result of writing this post. I do not seek to be legalistic about this. Hear my heart. We need to begin to get closer to character, manifesting the reality behind the titles. Then the titles will just fall away and the "respect" will be earned. All of us are beginning to drop a lot of our traditional, cultural baggage. We are growing into something beautiful. We all need to be open to changing. Let us not carry our guilt with us into this new man, but let us not carry our vanity with us, either. If you are an evangelist who has enjoyed that title, but is now feeling convicted about the vanity of it all, then drop the title from your "business" card and do the work of an evangelist. After all, it is not churches who should be hiring you for this work, it should be the Holy Spirit Who sends you. If that is the case, then the title is really not necessary. The work of many modern "evangelists" has been to raise money for churches. Their emotional appeal for the poor souls in Russia, Africa, or India has generated billions of dollars, little of which actually goes into delivering the Gospel into the world.
Amen, brother!Just brother Farout is more than enough for me.
Last edited by lawrenceb; 05-20-12 at 07:39 PM. Reason: typo
Mat 23:8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Last edited by DanielO; 07-12-12 at 02:06 AM.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
share this
Reply With Quote