The Tribulation.

When does it start? When does it end? How long does it last? Will we know in advance it's coming?
Will Christians be here when it happens? Some of these questions have been argued for hundreds of years and it may be that there is no easy answer.

Let's start with the easy stuff first. Over 90% of what we know about the tribulation is found in Revelation.

It starts off with the seven seals in Rev 6.

The first seal is the cold war (Rev 6:1-2)
The second seal is open war (Rev 6:3-4)
The third seal is famine (Rev 6:5-6)
The fourth seal is death (Rev 6:7-8)
The fifth seal is matyrdom (Rev 6:9-11)
The sixth seal is physical (geological and atmospheric) disturbances (Rev 6:9-11)

Some says these thngs have already happened, or are happening right now.
More on that later, first lets define things.

After the first six seals, there is an interlude of sorts, this is when we see the 144,000 Jews get converted to believers. (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes) (Rev 7:1-8)
We also see a great multitude of non-jews (Gentiles) in Heaven (Rev 7:9-17)

The seventh seal is opened in Rev 8:1, it appears most of the events here happen in heaven (7 angels get ready to blow 7 trumpets)
After the seven seals come the seven trumpets. These are worse than the seals.

... more about the seven trumpets in the next part ...

We see the first trumpet in Revelation 8:7
In Rev 8:13 it says the last 3 trumpets are also called the 3 "woes".

The first trumpet earth itself is now smitten (Rev 8:7)
The second trumpet the sea is smitten (Rev 8:8-9)
The third trumpet the lakes and rivers are smitten (Rev 8:10-11)
The fourth trumpet the heavens (skies, stars) are smitten (Rev 8:12-13)
The fifth trumpet men are smitten (Rev 9:1-12)
This is a much longer section of verses, here we see 12 verses given to one trumpet.
There will be a type of (insect/animal) that can fly like locust, yet stings like a scorpion, their sting doesn't kill anyone, but it torments for 5 months. (They don't sting those are saved) This is also called the first "woe" (Rev 9:12)
The sixth trumpet men are killed (9:13-21)
A third of mankind is immediately killed, there are 200 million "horsemen" that ride fire breathing horse/lion creatures that kill men by breathing fire on them. Again we see, they don't kill saved believers.

Now in Revelation 10, we have another break for a bit.
Rev 10:1-11 talks about "the little book"
Rev 11:1-19 talks about the "two witnesses"
There is much speculation about who these will be, some say Elijah and Moses, others say perhaps Elisha and Enoch. (I will try to cover this later also)
The seventh trumpet (is a whole series of events) Rev 15:15-19)
After this comes the seven bowl judgements.. but first other things happen.

Starting Revelation 12:1 we see war on Earth, I think I would call this earth war phase 1.
In Revelation 12:7-12 we see war in heaven.
In Revelation 12:13-17 we go back to the war of earth, I would call this phase 2.

.... next Revelation 13, the beast and the false prophet ...

Most of Revelation 13 is dedicated to the beast (Rev 13:1-10) and the false prophet (Rev 13:11-18)

Revelation 14 is broken into what I would call "announcements".
We go back to the 144,000 Jews in the first announcement (Rev 14:1-5)
The second announcement is about those who worship the beast (Rev 14:9-13)
The third announcement talks about harvesting the earth (Rev 14:14-20)

Revelation 15 is a prelude of sorts to the bowl judgements. We see seven angels given 7 plagues. (Rev 15:1; Rev 15:6)

... next Revelation 16, the bowl judgements ....

Revelation 16 is about the bowl judgements.

The first bowl is painful sores (Rev 16:1-2)
The second bowl is seas smitten with blood (Rev 16:3)
The third bowl is rivers and lakes smitten with blood (Rev 16:4-7)
The fourth bowl is a supernaturally scorching sun and hot weather (Rev 16:8-9)
The fifth bowl is darkness (Rev 16:10-11)
The sixth bowl the Euphrates river is dried up (Rev 16:12-16)
The seventh bowl (this is an especially bad one, I would just call "widespread destruction") (Rev 16:17-21)

I personally believe the events of Revelation 17 and 18 to be part of the tribulation as well. These mostly talk about Babylon (a city that was destroyed around 497 BC, the last entry in history about Babylon was when Alexander the Great visited the ruins there approximately 331 BC. Recent news articles suggest that the ruins of the ancient city of Babylon have been found.
Some say Babylon will be rebuilt, others say Babylon is a code name for an existing city (usually Rome).

In Revelation 19, we see the second coming of Christ. (Whether are not this is the rapture or not is debatable, and will hopefully come out of future discussions here).

Concerning rapture, I was researching this doctrine and found that
John Darby was not in fact the originator of the doctrine.

Read the following and tell me what you think.

The Influence of John Darby

Many people have thought that John Darby, the founder of the Plymouth Brethren,
was the originator of the Rapture doctrine. This is not the case. Darby was a
brilliant theologian with outstanding scholarly abilities.

Even those who disagreed with his teachings admit that he, and many associated
with him, helped cause a revival in biblical learning throughout the evangelical world
which has perpetuated down to the present day. All who love biblical research ought
to be thankful for what Darby and especially his associates accomplished for
biblical scholarship. These early men helped pave the way particularly for the renewal
of modern lexical studies in the biblical languages.

This renewal of language studies was not the only thing they produced.
The doctrine of “dispensationalism” was also a teaching they brought to the attention
of the Protestant world. And then, there was this new doctrine termed the “Rapture.”

While many Christians long thought the Rapture doctrine originated with John Darby,
it is now known that this was not true. Darby did popularize it. Scofield and others took
it over. But Darby provided the intellectual mantle that helped make it respectable.
Many of those in the evangelical sphere of Christianity today are so certain of its
veracity that it is accepted as the absolute truth of God. The fact is, however,
John Darby received the knowledge of the doctrine from someone else.
His source was Margaret Macdonald.

Originally Posted by David777

Concerning rapture, I was researching this doctrine and found that
John Darby was not in fact the originator of the doctrine.

Read the following and tell me what you think.

The Influence of John Darby

Many people have thought that John Darby, the founder of the Plymouth Brethren,
was the originator of the Rapture doctrine. This is not the case. Darby was a
brilliant theologian with outstanding scholarly abilities.

Even those who disagreed with his teachings admit that he, and many associated
with him, helped cause a revival in biblical learning throughout the evangelical world
which has perpetuated down to the present day. All who love biblical research ought
to be thankful for what Darby and especially his associates accomplished for
biblical scholarship. These early men helped pave the way particularly for the renewal
of modern lexical studies in the biblical languages.

This renewal of language studies was not the only thing they produced.
The doctrine of “dispensationalism” was also a teaching they brought to the attention
of the Protestant world. And then, there was this new doctrine termed the “Rapture.”

While many Christians long thought the Rapture doctrine originated with John Darby,
it is now known that this was not true. Darby did popularize it. Scofield and others took
it over. But Darby provided the intellectual mantle that helped make it respectable.
Many of those in the evangelical sphere of Christianity today are so certain of its
veracity that it is accepted as the absolute truth of God. The fact is, however,
John Darby received the knowledge of the doctrine from someone else.
His source was Margaret Macdonald.

Good ole wikipedia. You know I have a Bible over 300 years old. Handed down from my grandmother. It has notes about the rapture from before Margaret McDonald or John Darby ever came on the scene. Both the Roman Catholic church and Orthodox had doctrine about the rapture as early as 700 years ago. John Wesley preached on the rapture also. Last I heard, Luther and Calvin have no surviving documents on the rapture so it is possible neither of them believed in it. I looked up John Piper and I see websites saying ho supports it and he is against it, the internet is a hard place to trust. Tozer preached on it and so did Billy Graham. John Macarthur, Mark Driscoll, and Charles Stanley all believe in the rapture.
The idea of dispensational teaching was also around long before Darby. It actually comes from Isaiah 28.

Isa 28:10 "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'"
Isa 28:11 Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,
Isa 28:12 He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen.
Isa 28:13 So the word of the LORD to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

It's actually even taught in secular schools, but just called "rational thinking". Example.
I live in Los Angeles.
Los Angeles is in Orange county.
Orange county is in California.
California is in the U.S.
The U.S. is in north America.
question: what continent do I live on?
Most people would answer north America. Even though I never said I live there.
Reading the Bible sometimes requires rational thinking for certain things to make sense. Even though the Bible doesn't specifically state some things.

It was not wikipedia, it was another site with a book for sale.

The author had apparently researched the origins of pretrib
rapture, maybe his research was too shallow.

Been reading your posts and was wondering where
is the seventh trumpet?

I am only a novice in eschatology.

Originally Posted by David777

I
Been reading your posts and was wondering where
is the seventh trumpet?

I am only a novice in eschatology.

It was in the second post, about 6 sentences up from the bottom.
(Rev 8:1)

The Book in Heaven. (literally "the scroll")
although not in the Bible, some traditions call this "Book of Redemption"

Rev 5:1 I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?"
Rev 5:3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.
Rev 5:4 Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it;
Rev 5:5 and one of the elders *said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals."
Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
Rev 5:8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Rev 5:9 And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

The 7 seals mentioned in Revelation 6 are the seals from this book.

It sounds like only one person could open the book and no one else.
The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, a Lamb as if slain.

I wonder can anyone doubt this is Jesus? I don't see how. It is interesting that even in Jesus' glorified state, he bears the scars and marks of his death (as if slain).
The song in Rev 5:9 is apparently a "new song".
Does anyone know what the seven spirits that the seven horns and seven eyes signify? I have an idea, but will hold my opinion for a bit.

The first Seal

Rev 6:1 Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come."
Rev 6:2 I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Some say this is cold war, because peace is not removed until the next seal.
Some say this has already happened, others say this is happening now. I disagree, while there have certainly been cold wars in the past (even in the history of US) it has never been on a global scale. The wars that did reach global proportions (WWI and WWII) certainly would not qualify as cold wars.
Some say the "he" (on the horse) in verse 2 could be the beast. It is hard to say for sure, but I suppose it's possible.