Originally Posted by jari

Paul said we are all children of light.
how would you define "ready"?

Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Luk 12:40 "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
Mat 25:11 "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
Mat 25:12 "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'
Mat 25:13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Luk 17:31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luk 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife.

I believe Paul, but I'm more inclined to follow Jesus' advice here.

Mat 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Mat 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Luk 11:35 "Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.

You are a hard one to figure out Jari :-)
First you say there are signs we can watch for (son of perdition, earthquakes, etc..)
Then you seemingly argue against yourself saying there is no need to be ready :-)

Hmmm....
Matt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

sounds more the rapture to me.

We can't discount other scripture simply because it does not fit what we can see with our eyes,this is how we end up with misunderstanding.

I would like an interpretation of how to marry Matthew 24:48-51 with being an end time event.
I simply can not accept it if if does not fit all scripture.
My best guess is that we don't fully comprehend chapter 24.
Discounting scripture that does not fit a doctrine does not make that doctrine truth.

We err in saying he can't come tonight because certain events have not happened.
Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:10 Is there anything of which one might say, "See this, it is new "? Already it has existed for ages Which were before us.

Originally Posted by Thiscrosshurts

We can't discount other scripture simply because it does not fit what we can see with our eyes,this is how we end up with misunderstanding.

I would like an interpretation of how to marry Matthew 24:48-51 with being an end time event.
I simply can not accept it if if does not fit all scripture.
My best guess is that we don't fully comprehend chapter 24.
Discounting scripture that does not fit a doctrine does not make that doctrine truth.

We err in saying he can't come tonight because certain events have not happened.
Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:10 Is there anything of which one might say, "See this, it is new "? Already it has existed for ages Which were before us.

Umm... I don't understand your point here.
In any case, I believe the rapture could happen tonight (I'm pre-trib, remember).
I have no trouble reconciling Matt 24 as it is written.

I assure you Solomon never saw anything like the tribulation or the rapture or even heaven for that matter.
Maybe things on the earth have always been the same, but there's a new heaven and new earth coming.

Originally Posted by B-A-C

"For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
"You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
"Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
"But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'
"Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
"On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
"Remember Lot's wife.

I believe Paul, but I'm more inclined to follow Jesus' advice here.

"Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
"But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
"For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

"Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.

You are a hard one to figure out Jari :-)
First you say there are signs we can watch for (son of perdition, earthquakes, etc..)
Then you seemingly argue against yourself saying there is no need to be ready :-)

in my opinion it gives distorted meaning of the scriptures to blend them together like that...

we are ready if we are saved.

but for tribulation all of us has to more or less prepare.


Interesting thing is that Jesus mentioned serving Him as part of being "ready". actually that was about watching/staying awake because we will be blessed then if we did so.

Mathew 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?
⁴⁶ Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
⁴⁷ Truly, I say to you,he will set him over all his possessions.
⁴⁸ But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,'
⁴⁹ and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards,
⁵⁰ the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I have no trouble reconciling Matt 24 as it is written.

Notice the "if" in verse 48,it is a switch or trigger.
If this refers to the rapture how can it be tripped by one individual?Are you saying we will be raptured only if we abuse our position like the person in these verses?That would mean that we all have different individual raptures. triggered by a fullness of disobedience.
I don't think Matthew 24 is describing the doctrine of the rapture at all.

Originally Posted by Thiscrosshurts

Mathew 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?
⁴⁶ Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
⁴⁷ Truly, I say to you,he will set him over all his possessions.
⁴⁸ But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,'
⁴⁹ and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards,
⁵⁰ the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Notice the "if" in verse 48,it is a switch or trigger.
If this refers to the rapture how can it be tripped by one individual?Are you saying we will be raptured only if we abuse our position like the person in these verses?That would mean that we all have different individual raptures. triggered by a fullness of disobedience.
I don't think Matthew 24 is describing the doctrine of the rapture at all.

huh?
All it is saying here is...
"I don't believe my master is coming back (at least not yet)"
Notice, that no matter what he thought, the master came back anyway. It doesn't matter what we believe, Jesus is coming when he is coming.

If you don't believe in the rapture, that's up to you.

Originally Posted by jari

in my opinion it gives distorted meaning of the scriptures to blend them together like that...

we are ready if we are saved.

but for tribulation all of us has to more or less prepare.

Interesting thing is that Jesus mentioned serving Him as part of being "ready". actually that was about watching/staying awake because we will be blessed then if we did so.

Matt 24, Matt 25 and Luke 17 are all talking about the rapture.
I would be more than happy to put them back into context if you would like.
(In fact all of those verses were included in the first two posts on this thread).

I don't believe in once saved always saved, I believe we are "working out our salvation in fear and trembling". But that's another discussion for another thread.

The Bible warns many will assume they are saved, but in reality aren't. I would rather be ready (even if it's not required) than take a chance and not be ready if it really is required.

I mentioned a part 3 a while back and haven't had a chance to post it yet....

What is the rapture? Did Jesus ever talk about it?

Jesus said he was coming back for us, to take us to the fathers house.
John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
John 14:4 "And you know the way where I am going."
John 14:5 Thomas *said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?"
John 14:6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
John 14:29 "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

The Angels said Jesus would come back from Heaven
Acts 1:11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

Jesus himself said he would come down from Heaven for us.
Matt 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Luke 17:24 "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.

Paul said Jesus would descend from Heaven,
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

1Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

... hopefully I will get to part 4 soon :-) ...

Originally Posted by B-A-C

, and are all talking about the rapture.
I would be more than happy to put them back into context if you would like.
(In fact all of those verses were included in the first two posts on this thread).

I don't believe in once saved always saved, I believe we are "working out our salvation in fear and trembling". But that's another discussion for another thread.

The Bible warns many will assume they are saved, but in reality aren't. I would rather be ready (even if it's not required) than take a chance and not be ready if it really is required.

stating that being "ready" or like the original texts say "watching" is any requirement for salvation, isnt biblical in my opinion. its just used like that. though in the explanations Lord gave none stated such.

Originally Posted by jari

stating that being "ready" or like the original texts say "watching" is any requirement for salvation, isnt biblical in my opinion. its just used like that. though in the explanations Lord gave none stated such.

From Matt 24:44 and Luke 12:40
G2092
ἑτοιμος
hetoimos
het-oy'-mos
From an old noun ἕτεος
heteos (fitness); adjusted, that is, ready: - prepared, (made) ready (-iness, to our hand).

From Matt 25:13
G1127
γρηγορεύω
grēgoreuō
gray-gor-yoo'-o
From G1453; to keep awake, that is, watch (literally or figuratively): - be vigilant, wake, (be) watch (-ful).

Both are used. It may not be Biblical in your opinion, but it is what the Bible says.