Originally Posted by B-A-C

Jesus wants a relationship with us. A personal, daily one on one relationship, not some one-time ritual. (Luke 9:23; John 10:14 and 1 John 4:13, etc..) When we stop needing him and depending on him, it's time to take a good look at yourself and where your trust really is.

BAC,
You got it right.
The Lord wants a relationship with us and He wants us (if we know what's good for us) to depend on Him daily.

But if I am focusing on feeling guilty everytime I sin and having to repent "or else"... wouldn't that make my relationship with the Lord based on fear?

Secondly, no Christians who have a good understanding of the Scriptures would ever think that we don't need The Lord anymore and can sin freely. That's just a caricature that people love to draw and attack.

The mark of growth in the Spirit is when our mind is *transformed* by the Holy Spirit through studying the Scripture so we start to hate sin, not loving it or think that it doesn't matter anymore.

You can not enter the Kingdom of God with unrepented sin.

I would just like to point out something about the Job, chapter 35, verses that were posted in this thread:

Job 35:6 If you sin, what do you against him? or if your transgressions be multiplied, what do you to him?

Job 35:7 If you be righteous, what give you him? or what receives he of your hand?

Job 35:8 Your wickedness may hurt a man as you are; and your righteousness may profit the son of man.

I think that it is VERY important to look at the very first verse in the chapter and see who the speaker of these words was:

Job 35:1 Elihu spoke moreover, and said,

Elihu started ranting three chapters back, but lets also look at the first couple of verses that followed Elihu's speech:

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

Job 38:2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

To whom is the Lord referring to in this verse? Job or Elihu?

We also see at the end of the story of Job that God was pleased with Job and the things that he spoke about God, but was unhappy with the things that Job's friends had spoken. Elihu was rebuked by God for the things that he had been saying, which includes chapter 35.

And as for the OP ( when history has lost track of a couple of the tribes of Israel; they are still unaccounted for, correct? ) how am I supposed to be sure whether I am a Jew or Gentile? For sure? What if someone happened to know for a fact that they are both Jew and Gentile, do they get to choose whether to take the easy Gentile road of Grace without works or the more difficult road of the Jews with all the works and commandments? What makes a person a Jew or a Gentile? And how could there possibly be a different way to salvation for the two groups, one involving works and maintaining salvation, and one without works? One group can fail God and be cast into Hell, and the other couldn't do so even if they tried? That sounds exactly like something that a loving and just God would do?

Les Feldick is a big teacher of this kind of doctrine and I've read through his Questions and Answers book and didn't find not one single thing that I could agree with the man on. He teaches that the finished work of Christ makes our repenting to God sort of annoying to Him because God is always responding to our asking for forgiveness by saying, "I have already forgiven them, why won't they listen?" He teaches that in this age of Grace we can even blaspheme the Holy Ghost because ALL of our sins have been forgiven already. He teaches, on the topic of healing and miracles in today's age of Grace, that Paul himself didn't even do these things for very long in his ministry, but only in the very beginning ( and the book of Acts contradicts this all day long ).

We are told not to add to or take away from the Word of God, and considering everything except Paul's letters irrelevant in this day of Grace is just that, isn't it? Dispensationalism also teaches that Jesus' teachings were only for the Jews, and not for the Gentiles. Well, that would include John 3:16 too, wouldn't it? No, because the Jews would be required to do more than just believe in the Son of God, right? Dispensationalism is an attempt to rid of verses that contradict a line of thinking, a set of beliefs. After all, you cannot correct someone WITH scripture IF most scripture does not apply to that person, correct?

Many of the messages in Job are good doctrine; the sin of the friends is assuming Job had to be guilty of sin because He suffered. Elihu is perhaps even the most arrogant in assuming he could stand as "daysman" between Job and God (sort of an ignorant attempt at claiming to be Christ or worthy to stand in His place). God answered Job out of the whirlwind and rebuked his words directly, His only remarks against the friends is that they did not speak of Him rightly as Job did (Elihu is also mysteriously missing from this list of friends). For , "Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it." And only Job dared "reprove" the LORD or "contend with" Him. The contrast is the Job truly wanted to understand the righteousness of God and could not, but the friends sided with God from a traditional and religious standpoint ("Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him? Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God? Is it good that he should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, do ye so mock him? He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly accept persons. Shall not his excellency make you afraid? and his dread fall upon you?")!

Concerning the doctrine of the verse; is it hard to agree with the idea that our rebellions against God through sin do not physically wound Him. For Satan devoted to overthrow Him (attempting to prove any portion of His Word a lie and condemn God as a false prophet: hence the crucifixion of Christ according to Dtrny 18:15-22) is prophecied to fail because God reigns and is righteous whether Satan chooses to sin or not, and though he should think to hurt or even kill Him, He will overcome in righteousness and grace (again illustrated in his plot against Job, thinking to prove wrong God's favorable translation upon Job). His glory is not effected by our works one way or the other. He is God whether we recognise and acknowledge this fact or not. No one made Him God, nor can any take it away from Him. That is all that verse says. And again, God having already made His decree by calling Job rightous cannot be altered, because Job cleaves unto God even in the midst of tests and trials that he cannot understand ("though He slay me yet will I trust in Him")! Therefore Jobs loyalty never truly feigns because his desire to honor God and not to offend Him is perpetual ("an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil").

Originally Posted by B-A-C

Notice he told her to "sin no more". Not you don't have any sin, and certainly not to keep on sinning.

Amen, true. I think some people here who believe its not necessary to seek forgiveness are very likely in denial.

Someone posted something excellent: if you hurt someone like a relative or friend, would you not feel sorry enough to ask for their forgiveness? What better example than this? Doesn't the Lord deserve most and more of our reverence, admiration and honor?

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

What about this one?

Proverbs 28:13

He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

Romans 6:1-4
1 What shall we say then? _a Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? ² Certainly not! How shall we who _b died to sin live any longer in it? ³ Or do you not know that _c as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus _d were baptized into His death? ⁴ Therefore we were _e buried with Him through baptism into death, that _f just as Christ was raised from the dead by _g the glory of the Father, _h even so we also should walk in newness of life.

These circles get so tiring. Everyone over-exhaggerates what the other is saying to make them out to be a moron, this way there is no reason or logic not to be believe as they do. NO ONE is discounting repentence and the role it plays in salvation. The issue is whether or not it is a repeated act. The issue is whther the act of salvation was finished upon its acceptance or a constant ritual of sacrifice for sins to be blameless by the law.

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ...Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

If we say we are freed from the bodage of the law by the sacrifice of Christ, then by what standard am I judged? If not by the law of God, of His widowm and judgment, spoken by His Word, then by what? Who can call me a transgressor, seeing I have no law to be judged by (save one in Christ by whose example I am saved)?

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

Denial of what?
"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."

By all means acknowledge your failures in living up to this blessed example, but you are forgiven. Live as a man grateful.