Originally Posted by Joe in Arkansas

David,
You are mostly right in describing my understanding. I'll elaborate:

1). Mankind has no "free will" as taught in the church. Mankind has a will but it is not free to act as we please. God is behind all the choices we make. He directs our steps. I could easily list a dozen verses that shows this to be true. There is not one verse that says otherwise. Yes, we make choices but that is not free will.

2). Yes, all are saved in the end. If one person is lost, God would be a liar and a failure and of course, that is not true. You said you agreed with the scriptures I posted on this subject so why do you still have trouble believing God will save all of mankind?

3). God's will is sovereign. Man's will is not. God is in complete control. No one comes to Christ unless it is God's will for it to happen and no man rejects Christ unless God is the cause behind that rejection. God's sovereignty is closely linked with my understanding of free will in 1). above. Do you not know that:

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

There are many, many other such verses that completely eliminate any idea that man has a free will; a will to make uncaused choices. God is the cause of our choices. Mankind has always done and will always "do of His good pleasure".

The reason the harlot church won't let go of her free will doctrine is because it is necessary so that God does not look evil in sending so much of His creation into a torture chamber of fire of all eternity. If man's supposed "free will" were untrue, then the hell doctrine would fall apart.

4). I do believe there is a Lake of Fire. It is just not the "hell" the church teaches. The LOF is a symbolic location on the new earth where the lost are sent to live and to receive their judgment. It is not literal fire nor is it for eternity (it is for an age of time). Fire in scripture means God's judgment. The seas in scripture represent the lost. But God chose to use the phrase "lake of fire" instead of "sea of fire" so show that the lost will not be able to escape their judgment - a lake has confined borders. All of Revelation is a book of spiritual symbols that represent a spiritual truth. It cannot be taken literally, just like the parables cannot be taken literally. God must heal a person's spiritual blindness before the book will open up to them. It was written for the Chosen of God to understand and no one else.

David, have you never considered all the contradictions that the mainstream church doctrines have with scripture? Those contradictions exist because the church is a harlot and is no different from the harlot nation of Israel that rejected Christ. God's truth has been replaced with the tradition's of man. Spiritually blind leaders within all the Harlot churches in the world have no clue as to what the Truth of Christ really says. Why do you think there are hundreds (if not thousands) of different denominations of churches in the world? It's because they are all spiritually blind and cannot see the Truth. Traditions of man have taken over the churches from everyone's own carnal view of scripture. Why do you think that Christ questioned whether He would find faith on earth upon His return?

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

He says this because there won't be much. In the world today, there are over 1 billion supposed followers of Christ. How can that be true in light of Christ's statement above?

Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Paul was in tears knowing what was going to happen to the church after He died. The flock was not going to be spared - none of them. The churches quickly became harlot after Paul's departure from this world. Christ told Him that this would happen. He warned the churches for three years. The churches quickly became harlot.

Christ tells His Elect in Revelation to come out of the harlot churches so that they won't partake of her sins or receive of her plaques.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

The sins and plaques of the harlot churches are great and many. I believe the worst of them are their doctrines of free will and Hell. They make God out to be the worse torturer and evil monster of all time. There is no redeeming value or purpose for torturing someone in fire for all eternity. Have you ever thought about how perverse and evil this doctrine of hell is? It's hard to even think about what it would be like to be in "hell" for more than a few seconds and yet the church teaches it will be for all eternity. Can you think of anything more evil? It is no wonder the harlot church is going to be spewed out of the mouth of Christ and go into judgment. Her sins are great. How's that for a powerful statement?

May the Lord bless you,
Joe

Simple question: If God in his will does not allow free will to us and in his enforcement of his will upon us, causes all to be saved. Each and all, no one not saved.

Then what is the need for hell?

It seems confusing to me, God will save all, no exception, by his will all will be enforced to be saved.....yet......there is still a hell for the unsaved?

Kit

Originally Posted by Kit Carson

Simple question: If God in his will does not allow free will to us and in his enforcement of his will upon us, causes all to be saved. Each and all, no one not saved.

Then what is the need for hell?

It seems confusing to me, God will save all, no exception, by his will all will be enforced to be saved.....yet......there is still a hell for the unsaved?

Kit

Kit,
You ask "what is the need for hell (if everyone is going to be saved)?

My answer is that the christian hell is not in the scriptures. It is a horrific hoax. Poor translation is partly to blame but it goes much deeper than that. Mankind is completely and totally deceived by Satan. Satan dwells in the harlot church and it is he who has made it a harlot. All men are born carnal and Satan feasts on our carnality. All the false doctrines in the harlot church come from him. That is why Christ called the pharisees children of the devil. It is no different now. Shortly after the apostles passed away, Satan moved in and took control of the church the apostles started. It soon became totally harlot as Paul said would happen. The harlot church with it's doctrines of free will and hell totally demean the name of Christ. Christ is love. Can you think of anything that is less loving than the doctrine of hell that the church espouses?

There is a place called the Lake of Fire but it is not hell. It is a place of temporary judgment, probably not too much different than our current place in which we dwell. However, the judgment will be much more difficult for those sent there.

The church is being judged now in this life, all others will be judged in another location called the Lake of Fire. Both are temporary and both produce righteousness in it's inhabitants. Scriptures states that the last to be saved into the Kingdom of Heaven will be the nation of Israel
who rejected their Messiah.

Matt 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

It is not a question of "if" we get into the Kingdom of Heaven but "when". The first will be last (the nation of Israel).

It is true God controls everything and is responsible for everything that happens in His creation. God even admits that He creates evil. But He uses evil for a good purpose - to create many sons and daughters.
Ultimately, that is what this creation is all about - creating sons and daughters of God Almighty. In the end, no one will be lost but all will "willing" travel the narrow path that leads to salvation in Jesus Christ. God does not force us on the paths that we travels, He merely puts all the circumstances in place (both external and internal) that causes us to choose the path we travel. From our point of view, we believe we have made a "free will" decision but from God's view point, He knows that He is the real cause.

If you haven't read all my previous posts on this thread, please do so. If you have any questions after that, I would be happy to try to answer them.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe

Originally Posted by Joe in Arkansas

Kit,
You ask "what is the need for hell (if everyone is going to be saved)?

My answer is that the christian hell is not in the scriptures. It is a horrific hoax. Poor translation is partly to blame but it goes much deeper than that. Mankind is completely and totally deceived by Satan. Satan dwells in the harlot church and it is he who has made it a harlot. All men are born carnal and Satan feasts on our carnality. All the false doctrines in the harlot church come from him. That is why Christ called the pharisees children of the devil. It is no different now. Shortly after the apostles passed away, Satan moved in and took control of the church the apostles started. It soon became totally harlot as Paul said would happen. The harlot church with it's doctrines of free will and hell totally demean the name of Christ. Christ is love. Can you think of anything that is less loving than the doctrine of hell that the church espouses?

There is a place called the Lake of Fire but it is not hell. It is a place of temporary judgment, probably not too much different than our current place in which we dwell. However, the judgment will be much more difficult for those sent there.

The church is being judged now in this life, all others will be judged in another location called the Lake of Fire. Both are temporary and both produce righteousness in it's inhabitants. Scriptures states that the last to be saved into the Kingdom of Heaven will be the nation of Israel
who rejected their Messiah.

Matt 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

It is not a question of "if" we get into the Kingdom of Heaven but "when". The first will be last (the nation of Israel).

It is true God controls everything and is responsible for everything that happens in His creation. God even admits that He creates evil. But He uses evil for a good purpose - to create many sons and daughters.
Ultimately, that is what this creation is all about - creating sons and daughters of God Almighty. In the end, no one will be lost but all will "willing" travel the narrow path that leads to salvation in Jesus Christ. God does not force us on the paths that we travels, He merely puts all the circumstances in place (both external and internal) that causes us to choose the path we travel. From our point of view, we believe we have made a "free will" decision but from God's view point, He knows that He is the real cause.

If you haven't read all my previous posts on this thread, please do so. If you have any questions after that, I would be happy to try to answer them.

May the Lord bless you,
Joe

I was playing the devils advocate. You see I read simple English as simple English. I have but one doctrine towards God and that is that God is good, kind, compassionate, full of mercy and understanding beyond our limited hints of understanding.

I have no further comment on your doctrine, to me it is simply false and goes against the very word of God. Nuff said.

God does not create evil......in the understanding of that, God created the earth, man, all things......and the creation is the cause and effect of evil. God never intended evil to be in the world, but as we are given free will, and can do as we wish, at any time, and our mines are open to temptation, then yes we are the source of evil in ourselves. But God does not create evil......no one will ever convince me of that one.

I agree with what the Bible says about Hell....that it is real and it does exist and is not just a final eternal judgment, but in the use of the word eternal, it means forever and ever, with no end. It is where evil does end up. There is a point where evil must forever be punished, and pay the price of evil....Our compassion may not understand this in our limited way....I just accept as the Bibles true message conveys to me. I do not need to understand it....I simply trust God knows best and is good. Like a Father to a child, yes a father will punish a child, teach a child, but love the child. But if that child is total evil and attempts to harm the family physically......the Father will kill that child. When there is no alternative.

Now I have my own views about what and who and how evil is...but do not publish them due to they may harm a youngster seeking God. My views are mine....and of great faith in the goodness of God.

I guess my main point is very simple still, if all are saved, if there is no free will, and we are controlled by God, and have no choice but to be saved, then my question still stands......why would you need hell, if all are saved, what would its purpose be?? But as it is real and the Bible does say so.....then it is a moot point.

Free will.....

I Kit have the choice to obey God or not. It is my choice. I prefer to obey God as his teaching first shows me the common sense of how to live life, then you begin to love God and understand and wish to obey, there is no force or wish against my will.

I can put on as I stated on another post.....all red socks or one red or one white or I can wear green ones......and I can switch colors at noon, and again before supper.......

Abraham who was asked to sacrifice his son......had free will to obey or not obey.......God is very wise, Abraham obeyed......God had a good idea he would.......but not just real sure......so the test.

So I respectfully disagree with your doctrine, it is not of the bible, it is of the internet. Read it, listen to it......we have no free will, but will be forced to submit.....God creates evil......Then you say we are not forced, just gently guided.....

I dunno, I respect God and if I do not know, I just say, I do not know. I will not insult God by putting words in his mouth. One thing I will go out on a limb with is I feel Hell is a way that God will be shown in his Glory. That good will conquer evil and Gods Glory will be set as an example forever......as against evil.......just what I feel. No basis on that, just how I see it. It will be a reminder to all......go this way and this is the result. You may go that way, by free will.......I hope you do not.

Again with respect, I do not agree. And will say no more on it.

Kit

I dunno, I respect God and if I do not know, I just say, I do not know. I will not insult God by putting words in his mouth. One thing I will go out on a limb with is I feel Hell is a way that God will be shown in his Glory. That good will conquer evil and Gods Glory will be set as an example forever......as against evil.......just what I feel. No basis on that, just how I see it. It will be a reminder to all......go this way and this is the result. You may go that way, by free will.......I hope you do not.

I kind of doubt good will conquer evil as they are from the same tree.
Good and evil are knowledge/formulas not people.
However all things will work together for good.
I think Christ conquers all we can imagine or build.

Originally Posted by Kit Carson

I was playing the devils advocate. You see I read simple English as simple English. I have but one doctrine towards God and that is that God is good, kind, compassionate, full of mercy and understanding beyond our limited hints of understanding.

I have no further comment on your doctrine, to me it is simply false and goes against the very word of God. Nuff said.

God does not create evil......in the understanding of that, God created the earth, man, all things......and the creation is the cause and effect of evil. God never intended evil to be in the world, but as we are given free will, and can do as we wish, at any time, and our mines are open to temptation, then yes we are the source of evil in ourselves. But God does not create evil......no one will ever convince me of that one.

I agree with what the Bible says about Hell....that it is real and it does exist and is not just a final eternal judgment, but in the use of the word eternal, it means forever and ever, with no end. It is where evil does end up. There is a point where evil must forever be punished, and pay the price of evil....Our compassion may not understand this in our limited way....I just accept as the Bibles true message conveys to me. I do not need to understand it....I simply trust God knows best and is good. Like a Father to a child, yes a father will punish a child, teach a child, but love the child. But if that child is total evil and attempts to harm the family physically......the Father will kill that child. When there is no alternative.

Now I have my own views about what and who and how evil is...but do not publish them due to they may harm a youngster seeking God. My views are mine....and of great faith in the goodness of God.

I guess my main point is very simple still, if all are saved, if there is no free will, and we are controlled by God, and have no choice but to be saved, then my question still stands......why would you need hell, if all are saved, what would its purpose be?? But as it is real and the Bible does say so.....then it is a moot point.

Free will.....

I Kit have the choice to obey God or not. It is my choice. I prefer to obey God as his teaching first shows me the common sense of how to live life, then you begin to love God and understand and wish to obey, there is no force or wish against my will.

I can put on as I stated on another post.....all red socks or one red or one white or I can wear green ones......and I can switch colors at noon, and again before supper.......

Abraham who was asked to sacrifice his son......had free will to obey or not obey.......God is very wise, Abraham obeyed......God had a good idea he would.......but not just real sure......so the test.

So I respectfully disagree with your doctrine, it is not of the bible, it is of the internet. Read it, listen to it......we have no free will, but will be forced to submit.....God creates evil......Then you say we are not forced, just gently guided.....

I dunno, I respect God and if I do not know, I just say, I do not know. I will not insult God by putting words in his mouth. One thing I will go out on a limb with is I feel Hell is a way that God will be shown in his Glory. That good will conquer evil and Gods Glory will be set as an example forever......as against evil.......just what I feel. No basis on that, just how I see it. It will be a reminder to all......go this way and this is the result. You may go that way, by free will.......I hope you do not.

Again with respect, I do not agree. And will say no more on it.

Kit

Kit,
God is good and full of love and mercy that never ends. May I ask, do you have children? If you do, then you may understand a little better as to what unconditional love is. God loves his children - all of them. He has the power to correct the evil that is in the heart of all men. We are all born evil and completely carnal. Just what makes you think that you are better than the less fortunate people who God has not called to Christ yet? Do you think by your "free will" choice that you are better than them - that you are smarter or somehow wiser? That is a condemnable form of self righteousness. The harlot church is full of self righteousness people. None of us are smart enough or wise enough to seek out God from our own supposed free will.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Do you believe this scripture? I do. Since it is true, just how did you and your free will ever decide you wanted to seek God? This scripture says it is impossible for you or anyone else to do it.

Here is what caused you to seek out Christ:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God drew you to Christ. You from your own supposed "free will" did not just suddenly decide one day to come to Him. The Father cause it to happen.

Where does your faith come from? From your "free will" to decide to have faith? No. Your faith comes from Christ who gave it to you.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Did you do anything to deserve the gift of Christ's faith? No, you did nothing to deserve it. God chose a place and a time to bless you with it before you knew you even needed to repent.

Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

You were wretched, misery, poor, naked and blind when He chose to give it to you. Are you any better than anyone else that God should have chosen you over them? Certainly not.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

He chose to draw you to Christ and gave you a measure of His faith and that caused you to repent. Why did God choose you and not some poor Muslim living in Iran? Here is why:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God chose to do it for you to suit His own purposes. Do you think He will do any less someday for His other children whom He loves? Here is what He says He will do:

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

1Tim 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Tim2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God says that He will draw all men to Him just as He drew you. He goes on to say that He will have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the Truth. But we must be patient and let God's plan for saving the world unfold. It will all happen in "due time".

Now, getting back to your children. Are you children evil? Scripture says we are all evil from birth and sinful creatures deserving death.

You said:
But if that child is total evil and attempts to harm the family physically......the Father will kill that child. When there is no alternative.

Christ commands us to love our enemies and to not even resist evil. Yet you say that you would kill your own child if they are evil enough. Knowing that, it makes sense that you would be willing to torture in fire most of mankind for all eternity. Surely, you would continue to love your child no matter what they have done. God does - even after we murdered His only begotten Son. He forgives us and still loves us. He loves us so much that He is going to change us all from the horrible sinful creatures we are, into loving and righteous children of God. He has the power to do it for all of mankind and has stated that He will do it.

Let me ask you a question. If you have a child that does not "get saved" in this life and God tells you to throw him into the fire where he can't die but will burn in agony for all eternity, would you do it?

You said:
God does not create evil...

Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

You do not know your scripture.

You said:
I Kit have the choice to obey God or not. It is my choice.

Again...

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

You have no such power within yourself to obey God. You are taking credit for the blessings that God has given you. That is a very self righteous act.

You said:
One thing I will go out on a limb with is I feel Hell is a way that God will be shown in his Glory.

In His glory??? Here is how God will be shown in His glory:

Phil 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Not much of what you said in your response to me is scriptural. I have shown you the scriptures of what the Truth is. With what you have said, you have brought God down to the level of carnal man and made Him out to be the worst monster who has ever lived...and you think burning people in fire will give God glory.

Matt 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter;

May the Lord have mercy on you,
Joe

Originally Posted by Thiscrosshurts

I kind of doubt good will conquer evil as they are from the same tree.
Good and evil are knowledge/formulas not people.
However all things will work together for good.
I think Christ conquers all we can imagine or build.

Thiscrosshurts,
It's nice to read something I can agree with. Thanks for your post.

Joe

Originally Posted by Joe in Arkansas

Kit,
God is good and full of love and mercy that never ends. May I ask, do you have children? If you do, then you may understand a little better as to what unconditional love is. God loves his children - all of them. He has the power to correct the evil that is in the heart of all men. We are all born evil and completely carnal. Just what makes you think that you are better than the less fortunate people who God has not called to Christ yet? Do you think by your "free will" choice that you are better than them - that you are smarter or somehow wiser? That is a condemnable form of self righteousness. The harlot church is full of self righteousness people. None of us are smart enough or wise enough to seek out God from our own supposed free will.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Do you believe this scripture? I do. Since it is true, just how did you and your free will ever decide you wanted to seek God? This scripture says it is impossible for you or anyone else to do it.

Here is what caused you to seek out Christ:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God drew you to Christ. You from your own supposed "free will" did not just suddenly decide one day to come to Him. The Father cause it to happen.

Where does your faith come from? From your "free will" to decide to have faith? No. Your faith comes from Christ who gave it to you.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Did you do anything to deserve the gift of Christ's faith? No, you did nothing to deserve it. God chose a place and a time to bless you with it before you knew you even needed to repent.

Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

You were wretched, misery, poor, naked and blind when He chose to give it to you. Are you any better than anyone else that God should have chosen you over them? Certainly not.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

He chose to draw you to Christ and gave you a measure of His faith and that caused you to repent. Why did God choose you and not some poor Muslim living in Iran? Here is why:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God chose to do it for you to suit His own purposes. Do you think He will do any less someday for His other children whom He loves? Here is what He says He will do:

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

1Tim 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Tim2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God says that He will draw all men to Him just as He drew you. He goes on to say that He will have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the Truth. But we must be patient and let God's plan for saving the world unfold. It will all happen in "due time".

Now, getting back to your children. Are you children evil? Scripture says we are all evil from birth and sinful creatures deserving death.

You said:
But if that child is total evil and attempts to harm the family physically......the Father will kill that child. When there is no alternative.

Christ commands us to love our enemies and to not even resist evil. Yet you say that you would kill your own child if they are evil enough. Knowing that, it makes sense that you would be willing to torture in fire most of mankind for all eternity. Surely, you would continue to love your child no matter what they have done. God does - even after we murdered His only begotten Son. He forgives us and still loves us. He loves us so much that He is going to change us all from the horrible sinful creatures we are, into loving and righteous children of God. He has the power to do it for all of mankind and has stated that He will do it.

Let me ask you a question. If you have a child that does not "get saved" in this life and God tells you to throw him into the fire where he can't die but will burn in agony for all eternity, would you do it?

You said:
God does not create evil...

Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

You do not know your scripture.

You said:
I Kit have the choice to obey God or not. It is my choice.

Again...

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

You have no such power within yourself to obey God. You are taking credit for the blessings that God has given you. That is a very self righteous act.

You said:
One thing I will go out on a limb with is I feel Hell is a way that God will be shown in his Glory.

In His glory??? Here is how God will be shown in His glory:

Phil 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Not much of what you said in your response to me is scriptural. I have shown you the scriptures of what the Truth is. With what you have said, you have brought God down to the level of carnal man and made Him out to be the worst monster who has ever lived...and you think burning people in fire will give God glory.

Matt 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter;

May the Lord have mercy on you,
Joe

Short comment, not one to fuss, state my way and, you see I do not worry much about it as I trust God to speak to you. Is there a little smilie with its tongue sticking out..lol.....that is my response to only one question you had for me.....if God tole me to throw an evil child in the fire.....yes ,I would. If God directly tells me to do anything I would do it. This is one forgiven sinner who will not challenge God. I may and do respectfully ask questions, but I will not challenge. I never get to upsit in any difference of agreement, as I understand all of us learn as we go, I have seen evil so evil it is not easily understood.

Behind my way is generally truth.....twas not me who shot the child, but in my family tree there was an adopted child, good was attempted to be done....the child was evil.....and began to dominate the parents....attacked and stabbed the mother, the father killed him as the child was now intent on killing the father......all over robbing them for money to support a drug habit..........

I am easy going, gentle, with a smile. With respect to all, and I do try my best to do a Christ wishes me to do......but I have little tolerance for evil.......I agree with Gods way of dealing with evil.......destroy it. With patience and kindness try your best to change it....but if it is going to consume you......destroy it.

Oh one last little jab...........cannot resist......but with respect....God does not create evil........did you hear that........God does not create evil.......you, no one, never, does not........God does not create evil.
God simply accepts responsibility, like the captain of the ship is responsible for all his crew does, even if he does not know what they did....he is responsible.....God simply says......I am responsible, I created, and evil is a part of it.......God does not go around causing evil on people. Nope, Nope.......No way.......God is Good. He holds us all in gentle hands.

Now where is that smillie with its tonque sticking out. Lol!

Kit

Originally Posted by Joe in Arkansas

Thiscrosshurts,
It's nice to read something I can agree with. Thanks for your post.

Joe

I am on a roll today......I do not agree with this either. Lol! Good will never conquer evil......really??

I do not quote scripture much, but I know what it means....one day our tears and all our sorrows and fears will be gone.

For sure one day evil will be conquered. Satan and all evil will be gone.

This is a direct message God gives us.

Evil will die.........Good will prevail.......this is the greatest hope we all have.

Nope do not agree with this either.

Kit

Fascinating scriptures you posted, so refreshing to read your views on these scriptures.

Creation is a gift, life is a gift, the atonement was a gift, grace is a gift, faith is a gift,
and sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit. Everything now and beyond is all granted
to us from God's pure and perfect love. Utterly beyond human understanding.

Gods love for mankind is beyond measure, there is no doubt about this.
All through the New Testament, God's love is dominant.

The history of Christianity is essentially continuous divisions over doctrine,
a geometric development of denominations into the thousands. The antithesis of
unity in the spirit. Your opinion of the churches is probably not far from the mark.
This may be more attributable to the sinful nature, and the wolves that tore into the church.

I wish to discuss this subject further, when I get time.

Thanks again for your post Joe.

I am on a roll today......I do not agree with this either. Lol! Good will never conquer evil......really??

I do not quote scripture much, but I know what it means....one day our tears and all our sorrows and fears will be gone.

We are told to overcome evil with good.
I don't think that means finding good people to destroy the evil ones.
I don't believe we can be good or evil,we can only do good or evil.
If I could be a verb then I would choose love.