Register
Sign In
Join Community
Register (takes 30 seconds)
Check your email for verification
Join the community!
Our Purpose: to show you the love of Jesus Christ, His promises of Salvation & Blessings and to spread the Good News to the ends of the Earth [Mark 16:15]. We're also here to edify the church [Ephesians 4:11-12].

Reasons to Register: interact with like-minded believers worldwide, seek help, help others, enjoy live chat, live events (bible studies, prayer, video chats), socialize with those of other faiths and share the love of Jesus with them, seek prayer, pray for others, enjoy kid-safe games, gallery and music. 100% free to join.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26
Share Thisshare this
shares
  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Online
    02-19-12
    Posts
    7
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    United States

    The Early Christian's beliefs in Purgatory

    I. The Early Church’s Belief in Purgatory

    I find it HILARIOUS how all of these Evangelical Protestants believe in the Rapture, which was NEVER believed until 1830, when it was invented by John Nelson Darby, but they won't believe in Purgatory which has been believed since the dawn of Christianity!! Not to mention the Jews believed in Purgatory.

    "And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again receives her. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: Mother, thou shaft have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the just." Acts of Paul and Thecla (A.D. 160).


    "Abercius by name, I am a disciple of the chaste shepherd...He taught me…faithful writings...These words, I, Abercius, standing by, ordered to be inscribed. In truth, I was in the course of my seventy-second year. Let him who understands and believes this pray fro Abercius." Inscription of Abercius (A.D. 190).

    "Without delay, on that very night, this was shown to me in a vision. I saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid colour, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age? Who died miserably with disease...But I trusted that my prayer would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then was the birth-day of Gets Caesar, and I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me. Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me. I saw that that place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright; and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. And where there had been a wound, I saw a scar; and that pool which I had before seen, I saw now with its margin lowered even to the boy's navel. And one drew water from the pool incessantly, and upon its brink was a goblet filled with water; and Dinocrates drew near and began to drink from it, and the goblet did not fail. And when he was satisfied, he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment." The Passion of Perpetua and Felicitias, 2:3-4 (A.D. 202).

    "Accordingly the believer, through great discipline, divesting himself of the passions, passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, viz., to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance from the sins he has committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more--not yet or not quite attaining what he sees others to have acquired. Besides, he is also ashamed of his transgressions. The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God's righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness." Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:14 (post A.D. 202).

    "[T]hat allegory of the Lord which is extremely clear and simple in its meaning, and ought to be from the first understood in its plain and natural sense...Then, again, should you be disposed to apply the term 'adversary' to the devil, you are advised by the (Lord's) injunction, while you are in the way with him, 'to make even with him such a compact as may be deemed compatible with the requirements of your true faith. Now the compact you have made respecting him is to renounce him, and his pomp, and his angels. Such is your agreement in this matter. Now the friendly understanding you will have to carry out must arise from your observance of the compact: you must never think of getting back any of the things which you have abjured, and have restored to him, lest he should summon you as a fraudulent man, and a transgressor of your agreement, before God the Judge (for in this light do we read of him, in another passage, as 'the accuser of the brethren,' or saints, where reference is made to the actual practice of legal prosecution); and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell, out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection. What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation?" Tertullian, A Treatise on the Soul, 35 (A.D. 210).

    "All souls, therefore; are shut up within Hades: do you admit this? It is true, whether you say yes or no: moreover, there are already experienced there punishments and consolations; and there you have a poor man and a rich...Moreover, the soul executes not all its operations with the ministration of the flesh; for the judgment of God pursues even simple cogitations and the merest volitions. 'Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.' Therefore, even for this cause it is most fitting that the soul, without at all waiting for the flesh, should be punished for what it has done without the partnership of the flesh. So, on the same principle, in return for the pious and kindly thoughts in which it shared not the help of the flesh, shall it without the flesh receive its consolation. In short, inasmuch as we understand 'the prison' pointed out in the Gospel to be Hades, and as we also interpret 'the uttermost farthing' to mean the very smallest offence which has to be recompensed there before the resurrection, no one will hesitate to believe that the soul undergoes in Hades some compensatory discipline, without prejudice to the full process of the resurrection, when the recompense will be administered through the flesh besides." Tertullian, A Treatise on the Soul, 58 (A.D. 210).
    "As often as the anniversary comes round, we make offerings for the dead as birthday honours." Tertullian, The Chaplut, 3 (A.D. 211).
    "[A] woman is more bound when her husband is dead...Indeed, she prays for his soul, and requests refreshment for him meanwhile, and fellowship (with him) in the first resurrection; and she offers (her sacrifice) on the anniversary of his falling asleep." Tertullian, On Monogamy, 10 (A.D. 216).

    "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (1 Cor.,3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones; neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works." Origen, Homilies on Jeremias, PG 13:445, 448 ( A.D. 244).

    "For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given. Yet virginity is not therefore deficient in the Church, nor does the glorious design of continence languish through the sins of others. The Church, crowned with so many virgins, flourishes; and chastity and modesty preserve the tenor of their glory. Nor is the vigour of continence broken down because repentance and pardon are facilitated to the adulterer. It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory: it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord." Cyprian, To Antonianus, Epistle 51 (55):20 (A.D. 253).

    "Let us pray for our brethren that are at rest in Christ, that God, the lover of mankind, who has received his soul, may forgive him every sin, voluntary and involuntary, and may be merciful and gracious to him, and give him his lot in the land of the pious that are sent into the bosom of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, with all those that have pleased Him and done His will from the beginning of the world, whence all sorrow, grief, and lamentation are banished." Apostolic Constitutions, 8:4,41 (3rd Century).

    "The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment: which the poets transferred to the vulture of Tityus. Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when He shall have judged the righteous, He will also try them with fire. Then they whose sins shall exceed either in weight or in number, shall be scorched by the fire and burnt: but they whom full justice and maturity of virtue has imbued will not perceive that fire; for they have something of God in themselves which repels and rejects the violence of the flame." Lactantius, The Divine Institutes, 7:21 (A.D. 307).

    "Then we commemorate also those who have fallen asleep before us, first Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, that at their prayers and intercessions God would receive our petition. Then on behalf also of the Holy Fathers and Bishops who have fallen asleep before us, and in a word of all who in past years have fallen asleep among us, believing that it will be a very great benefit to the souls, for whom the supplication is put up, while that holy and most awful sacrifice is set forth. And I wish to persuade you by an illustration. For I know that many say, what is a soul profited, which departs from this world either with sins, or without sins, if it be commemorated in the prayer? For if a king were to banish certain who had given him of-fence, and then those who belong to them should weave a crown and offer it to him on behalf of those under punishment, would he not grant a remission of their penalties? In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, but offer up Christ sacrificed for our sins, propitiating our merciful God for them as well as for ourselves.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 23:9,10 (c. A.D. 350).

    "I think that the noble athletes of God, who have wrestled all their lives with the invisible enemies, after they have escaped all of their persecutions and have come to the end of life, are examined by the prince of this world; and if they are found to have any wounds from their wrestling, any stains or effects of sin, they are detained. If, however they are found unwounded and without stain, they are, as unconquered, brought by Christ into their rest." Basil, Homilies on the Psalms, 7:2 (ante A.D. 370).

    "Lay me not with sweet spices: for this honour avails me not; Nor yet incense and perfumes: for the honour benefits me not. Burn sweet spices in the Holy Place: and me, even me, conduct to the grave with prayer. Give ye incense to God: and over me send up hymns. Instead of perfumes of spices: in prayer make remembrance of me." Ephraem, His Testament (ante A.D. 373).

    "Useful too is the prayer fashioned on their [the dead’s] behalf...it is useful, because in this world we often stumble either voluntarily or involuntarily." Epiphanius, Panarion, 75:8 (A.D. 375).

    "When he has quitted his body and the difference between virtue and vice is known he cannot approach God till the purging fire shall have cleansed the stains with which his soul was infested. That same fire in others will cancel the corruption of matter, and the propensity to evil." Gregory of Nyssa, Sermon on the Dead, PG 13:445,448 (ante A.D. 394).

    "Give, Oh Lord, rest to Thy servant Theodosius, that rest Thou hast prepared for Thy saints....I love him, therefore will I follow him to the land of the living; I will not leave him till by my prayers and lamentations he shall be admitted unto the holy mount of the Lord,to which his deserts call him." Ambrose, De obitu Theodosii, PL 16:1397 (A.D. 395).

    "Other husbands scatter on the graves of their wives violets, roses, lilies, and purple flowers; and assuage the grief of their hearts by fulfilling this tender duty. Our dear Pammachius also waters the holy ashes and the revered bones of Paulina, but it is with the balm of almsgiving." Jerome, To Pammachius, Epistle 66:5 (A.D. 397).

    "Weep for the unbelievers; weep for those who differ in nowise from them, those who depart hence without the illumination, without the seal! They indeed deserve our wailing, they deserve our groans; they are outside the Palace, with the culprits, with the condemned: for,

    "Verily I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven." Mourn for those who have died in wealth, and did not from their wealth think of any solace for their soul, who had power to wash away their sins and would not. Let us all weep for these in private and in public, but with propriety, with gravity, not so as to make exhibitions of ourselves; let us weep for these, not one day, or two, but all our life. Such tears spring not from senseless passion, but from true affection. The other sort are of senseless passion. For this cause they are quickly quenched, whereas if they spring from the fear of God, they always abide with us. Let us weep for these; let us assist them according to our power; let us think of some assistance for them, small though it be, yet still let us assist them. How and in what way? By praying and entreating others to make prayers for them, by continually giving to the poor on their behalf." John Chrysostom, Homilies on Phillipians, 3 (ante A.D. 404).

    "If the baptized person fulfills the obligations demanded of a Christian, he does well. If he does not--provided he keeps the faith, without which he would perish forever--no matter in what sin or impurity remains, he will be saved, as it were, by fire; as one who has built on the foundation, which is Christ, not gold, silver, and precious stones, but wood, hay straw, that is, not just and chasted works but wicked and unchaste works." Augustine, Faith and Works, 1:1 (A.D. 413).

    "Now on what ground does this person pray that he may not be 'rebuked in indignation, nor chastened in hot displeasure"? He speaks as if he would say unto God, 'Since the things which I already suffer are many in number, I pray Thee let them suffice;' and he begins to enumerate them, by way of satisfying God; offering what he suffers now, that he may not have to suffer worse evils hereafter." Augustine, Exposition of the Psalms, 38(37):3 (A.D. 418).

    "And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether some believers shall pass through a kind of purgatorial fire, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the goods that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they 'shall not inherit the kingdom of God,' unless after suitable repentance their sins be forgiven them. When I say 'suitable,' I mean that they are not to be unfruitful in almsgiving; for Holy Scripture lays so much stress on this virtue, that our Lord tells us beforehand, that He will ascribe no merit to those on His right hand but that they abound in it, and no defect to those on His left hand but their want of it, when He shall say to the former, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom," and to the latter, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire.'" Augustine, Enchiridion, 69 (A.D. 421).

    "During the time, moreover, which intervenes between a man's death and the final resurrection, the soul dwells in a hidden retreat, where it enjoys rest or suffers affliction just in proportion to the merit it has earned by the life which it led on earth." Augustine, Enchiridion, 1099 (A.D. 421).

    "For our part, we recognize that even in this life some punishments are purgatorial,--not, indeed, to those whose life is none the better, but rather the worse for them, but to those who are constrained by them to amend their life. All other punishments, whether temporal or eternal, inflicted as they are on every one by divine providence, are sent either on account of past sins, or of sins presently allowed in the life, or to exercise and reveal a man's graces. They may be inflicted by the instrumentality of bad men and angels as well as of the good. For even if any one suffers some hurt through another's wickedness or mistake, the man indeed sins whose ignorance or injustice does the harm; but God, who by His just though hidden judgment permits it to be done, sins not. But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come." Augustine, City of God, 21:13 (A.D. 426).

    "But since she has this certainty regarding no man, she prays for all her enemies who yet live in this world; and yet she is not heard in behalf of all. But she is heard in the case of those only who, though they oppose the Church, are yet predestinated to become her sons through her intercession...For some of the dead, indeed, the prayer of the Church or of pious individuals is heard; but it is for those who, having been regenerated in Christ, did not spend their life so wickedly that they can be judged unworthy of such compassion, nor so well that they can be considered to have no need of it. As also, after the resurrection, there will be some of the dead to whom, after they have endured the pains proper to the spirits of the dead, mercy shall be accorded, and acquittal from the punishment of the eternal fire. For were there not some whose sins, though not remitted in this life, shall be remitted in that which is to come, it could not be truly said, "They shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in that which is to come.' But when the Judge of quick and dead has said, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world,' and to those on the other side, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels,' and 'These shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life,' it were excessively presumptuous to say that the punishment of any of those whom God has said shall go away into eternal punishment shall not be eternal, and so bring either despair or doubt upon the corresponding promise of life eternal." Augustine, City of God,2 1:24 (A.D. 426).

    "If we neither give thanks to God in tribulations nor redeem our own sins by good works, we shall have to remain in that purgatorian fire as long as it takes for those above-mentioned lesser sins to be consumed like wood and straw and hay." Ceasar of Arles, Sermon 179 (104):2 (A.D. 542).
    "Each one will be presented to the Judge exactly as he was when he departed this life. Yet, there must be a cleansing fire before judgment, because of some minor faults that may remain to be purged away. Does not Christ, the Truth, say that if anyone blasphemes against the Holy Spirit he shall not be forgiven 'either in this world or in the world to come'(Mt. 12:32)? From this statement we learn that some sins can be forgiven in this world and some in the world to come. For, if forgiveness is refused for a particular sin, we conclude logically that it is granted for others. This must apply, as I said, to slight transgressions." Gregory the Great [regn. A.D. 590-604], Dialogues, 4:39 (A.D. 594).
    Last edited by ucs1923; 02-09-12 at 05:45 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Brother Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last Online
    04-09-12
    Posts
    1,339
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    United States
    Location
    Branson, MO

    another reminder.

    I find it HILARIOUS how all of these Evangelical Protestants believe in the Rapture, which was NEVER believed until 1930, when it was invented by John Nelson Darby, but they won't believe in Purgatory which has been believed since the dawn of Christianity!! Not to mention the Jews believed in Purgatory.
    You find it funny in what others believe? Many Protestants do not believe in rapture here, if you would take the time to check the forums.

    Your new here, and I already find a lot of pride in your comments. I will be kind enough to post this again.

    Just a reminder of the rules of "THIS" forum. We recognize the bible being 66 books. Everything proved true in this forum comes from some scripture and passages from those 66 books. We do not recognize any hidden books (Apocrypha) or other works.

    We also don't recognize any denomination as having authority, including the Catholic Church.

    There are lot's to talk about within those 66 books, and you will have to prove what you are trying to teach from those 66 books, so make sure your able to do so.

    Thank you.
    I trust from here on out, that you will not go overboard in getting my unwanted attention again.

    Jesus Is Lord.
    Last edited by Brother Mike; 02-15-12 at 12:41 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Online
    06-08-12
    Posts
    792
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    United States
    It really matters not who believed what when or why. The bible teaches that heresy was prevalent from the start. So seeing that heresy has made its way through out the generations we need not rely upon the words of men as if they are to be held to the standard of the Word of God that came as holy men spake as they were moved. I stack all of these works and words of men up with those who are called the Great Theologians of the past into one pile and call it the Mars Hill of Christianity. Everyone may come and eat of the fruit of these men and receive the reward that that fruit shall bring. Me, I prefer to listen to the anointing, that I received of God, which interprets the holy scriptures for me and guides me into all truth.

    1 Corinthians 3 does not speak of a place called Purgatory. It speaks of the destruction of carnal Christians. It is they who are carnal who have condemnation abiding in them. They are the wood, hay and stubble that will be burnt up, not the works of their hands but they themselves. Those who are of God and are the fellow workers of God as Paul and Apollos were, are the ones who will suffer loss after travailing these in birth and raising them up unable to bring them to perfection and thus suffering the loss of them. Every man must be careful, diligent how he builds upon that foundation which is Christ, the foundation of the temple of God the Father that dwells in it via his Holy Spirit. This simple truth is to be understood within the complete context of what is written. Paul begins the thought by speaking of the carnal divisions of the Corinthian believers through the worship of mere men and the doctrines they brought in verse 10 of chapter 1 and concludes the thought in chapter 4 and verse 7. In the midst of the complete contextual thought Paul speaks of this destruction of carnal believers and caps off said destruction by stating the following:

    16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    You may want to believe that God is only going to burn up your works that are evil or that there is a time limit set for the purging of that which is wood, hay or stubble. The truth of the scripture is the loss of the believer themselves. God is not willing that any believer should perish as Peter tells us but desires that all who believe should come to repentance. Those who having been brought to the fullness of the stature that is in Christ Jesus through the instruction of pastors and teachers such as Paul and Apollos, being born again of the Word of God, walking as Christ walked shall suffer no such thing but have boldness in the day of judgment. Those who continue in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth will have nothing to look forward to except the fearful judgment of God whose wrath shall devour the enemies.

    Do not err my beloved brethren. He who endures temptation shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him as God does not allow any of us to be tempted above that which we are able. For those who do fall into sin through ignorance, fear and weakness there is an advocate with the Father in heaven. Call upon him for deliverance from sin. Walk in the light as God the Father is in the light and then you will have fellowship with him and under this condition shall the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanse you from all sin.

    May God the Father be merciful and through his goodness lead all unto repentance not to be repented of to the acknowledging of the truth, that Jesus is the righteousness of God manifest in the flesh and he that does righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous and God the Father is just and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus, therefore picking up their own cross, denying themselves and following him in all his ways.

    In Jesus Name,

    Gary

  4. #4
    Member Peace Seeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Online
    03-30-13
    Posts
    708
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by ucs1923 View Post
    I find it HILARIOUS how all of these Evangelical Protestants......won't believe in Purgatory which has been believed since the dawn of Christianity!! Not to mention the Jews believed in Purgatory.
    Any group or person that believed in purgatory was definitely not following the "faith that was delivered unto the saints" (Jude 1:3). Would you care to post some biblical references to purgatory, NOT just certain peoples' beliefs on the matter?

    Let God be true and every man a liar! Romans 3:4

  5. #5
    Member brakelite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Online
    05-25-13
    Posts
    613
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    New Zealand
    Location
    Waikato
    Age
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by ucs1923 View Post
    I. The Early Church’s Belief in Purgatory

    I find it HILARIOUS how all of these Evangelical Protestants believe in the Rapture, which was NEVER believed until 1930, when it was invented by John Nelson Darby, but they won't believe in Purgatory which has been believed since the dawn of Christianity!! Not to mention the Jews believed in Purgatory.

    "And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again receives her. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: Mother, thou shaft have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the just." Acts of Paul and Thecla (A.D. 160).


    "Abercius by name, I am a disciple of the chaste shepherd...He taught me…faithful writings...These words, I, Abercius, standing by, ordered to be inscribed. In truth, I was in the course of my seventy-second year. Let him who understands and believes this pray fro Abercius." Inscription of Abercius (A.D. 190).

    "Without delay, on that very night, this was shown to me in a vision. I saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid colour, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age? Who died miserably with disease...But I trusted that my prayer would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then was the birth-day of Gets Caesar, and I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me. Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me. I saw that that place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright; and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. And where there had been a wound, I saw a scar; and that pool which I had before seen, I saw now with its margin lowered even to the boy's navel. And one drew water from the pool incessantly, and upon its brink was a goblet filled with water; and Dinocrates drew near and began to drink from it, and the goblet did not fail. And when he was satisfied, he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment." The Passion of Perpetua and Felicitias, 2:3-4 (A.D. 202).

    "Accordingly the believer, through great discipline, divesting himself of the passions, passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, viz., to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance from the sins he has committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more--not yet or not quite attaining what he sees others to have acquired. Besides, he is also ashamed of his transgressions. The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God's righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness." Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:14 (post A.D. 202).

    "[T]hat allegory of the Lord which is extremely clear and simple in its meaning, and ought to be from the first understood in its plain and natural sense...Then, again, should you be disposed to apply the term 'adversary' to the devil, you are advised by the (Lord's) injunction, while you are in the way with him, 'to make even with him such a compact as may be deemed compatible with the requirements of your true faith. Now the compact you have made respecting him is to renounce him, and his pomp, and his angels. Such is your agreement in this matter. Now the friendly understanding you will have to carry out must arise from your observance of the compact: you must never think of getting back any of the things which you have abjured, and have restored to him, lest he should summon you as a fraudulent man, and a transgressor of your agreement, before God the Judge (for in this light do we read of him, in another passage, as 'the accuser of the brethren,' or saints, where reference is made to the actual practice of legal prosecution); and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell, out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection. What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation?" Tertullian, A Treatise on the Soul, 35 (A.D. 210).

    "All souls, therefore; are shut up within Hades: do you admit this? It is true, whether you say yes or no: moreover, there are already experienced there punishments and consolations; and there you have a poor man and a rich...Moreover, the soul executes not all its operations with the ministration of the flesh; for the judgment of God pursues even simple cogitations and the merest volitions. 'Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.' Therefore, even for this cause it is most fitting that the soul, without at all waiting for the flesh, should be punished for what it has done without the partnership of the flesh. So, on the same principle, in return for the pious and kindly thoughts in which it shared not the help of the flesh, shall it without the flesh receive its consolation. In short, inasmuch as we understand 'the prison' pointed out in the Gospel to be Hades, and as we also interpret 'the uttermost farthing' to mean the very smallest offence which has to be recompensed there before the resurrection, no one will hesitate to believe that the soul undergoes in Hades some compensatory discipline, without prejudice to the full process of the resurrection, when the recompense will be administered through the flesh besides." Tertullian, A Treatise on the Soul, 58 (A.D. 210).
    "As often as the anniversary comes round, we make offerings for the dead as birthday honours." Tertullian, The Chaplut, 3 (A.D. 211).
    "[A] woman is more bound when her husband is dead...Indeed, she prays for his soul, and requests refreshment for him meanwhile, and fellowship (with him) in the first resurrection; and she offers (her sacrifice) on the anniversary of his falling asleep." Tertullian, On Monogamy, 10 (A.D. 216).

    "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (1 Cor.,3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones; neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works." Origen, Homilies on Jeremias, PG 13:445, 448 ( A.D. 244).

    "For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given. Yet virginity is not therefore deficient in the Church, nor does the glorious design of continence languish through the sins of others. The Church, crowned with so many virgins, flourishes; and chastity and modesty preserve the tenor of their glory. Nor is the vigour of continence broken down because repentance and pardon are facilitated to the adulterer. It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory: it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord." Cyprian, To Antonianus, Epistle 51 (55):20 (A.D. 253).

    "Let us pray for our brethren that are at rest in Christ, that God, the lover of mankind, who has received his soul, may forgive him every sin, voluntary and involuntary, and may be merciful and gracious to him, and give him his lot in the land of the pious that are sent into the bosom of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, with all those that have pleased Him and done His will from the beginning of the world, whence all sorrow, grief, and lamentation are banished." Apostolic Constitutions, 8:4,41 (3rd Century).

    "The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment: which the poets transferred to the vulture of Tityus. Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when He shall have judged the righteous, He will also try them with fire. Then they whose sins shall exceed either in weight or in number, shall be scorched by the fire and burnt: but they whom full justice and maturity of virtue has imbued will not perceive that fire; for they have something of God in themselves which repels and rejects the violence of the flame." Lactantius, The Divine Institutes, 7:21 (A.D. 307).

    "Then we commemorate also those who have fallen asleep before us, first Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, that at their prayers and intercessions God would receive our petition. Then on behalf also of the Holy Fathers and Bishops who have fallen asleep before us, and in a word of all who in past years have fallen asleep among us, believing that it will be a very great benefit to the souls, for whom the supplication is put up, while that holy and most awful sacrifice is set forth. And I wish to persuade you by an illustration. For I know that many say, what is a soul profited, which departs from this world either with sins, or without sins, if it be commemorated in the prayer? For if a king were to banish certain who had given him of-fence, and then those who belong to them should weave a crown and offer it to him on behalf of those under punishment, would he not grant a remission of their penalties? In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, but offer up Christ sacrificed for our sins, propitiating our merciful God for them as well as for ourselves.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 23:9,10 (c. A.D. 350).

    "I think that the noble athletes of God, who have wrestled all their lives with the invisible enemies, after they have escaped all of their persecutions and have come to the end of life, are examined by the prince of this world; and if they are found to have any wounds from their wrestling, any stains or effects of sin, they are detained. If, however they are found unwounded and without stain, they are, as unconquered, brought by Christ into their rest." Basil, Homilies on the Psalms, 7:2 (ante A.D. 370).

    "Lay me not with sweet spices: for this honour avails me not; Nor yet incense and perfumes: for the honour benefits me not. Burn sweet spices in the Holy Place: and me, even me, conduct to the grave with prayer. Give ye incense to God: and over me send up hymns. Instead of perfumes of spices: in prayer make remembrance of me." Ephraem, His Testament (ante A.D. 373).

    "Useful too is the prayer fashioned on their [the dead’s] behalf...it is useful, because in this world we often stumble either voluntarily or involuntarily." Epiphanius, Panarion, 75:8 (A.D. 375).

    "When he has quitted his body and the difference between virtue and vice is known he cannot approach God till the purging fire shall have cleansed the stains with which his soul was infested. That same fire in others will cancel the corruption of matter, and the propensity to evil." Gregory of Nyssa, Sermon on the Dead, PG 13:445,448 (ante A.D. 394).

    "Give, Oh Lord, rest to Thy servant Theodosius, that rest Thou hast prepared for Thy saints....I love him, therefore will I follow him to the land of the living; I will not leave him till by my prayers and lamentations he shall be admitted unto the holy mount of the Lord,to which his deserts call him." Ambrose, De obitu Theodosii, PL 16:1397 (A.D. 395).

    "Other husbands scatter on the graves of their wives violets, roses, lilies, and purple flowers; and assuage the grief of their hearts by fulfilling this tender duty. Our dear Pammachius also waters the holy ashes and the revered bones of Paulina, but it is with the balm of almsgiving." Jerome, To Pammachius, Epistle 66:5 (A.D. 397).

    "Weep for the unbelievers; weep for those who differ in nowise from them, those who depart hence without the illumination, without the seal! They indeed deserve our wailing, they deserve our groans; they are outside the Palace, with the culprits, with the condemned: for,

    "Verily I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven." Mourn for those who have died in wealth, and did not from their wealth think of any solace for their soul, who had power to wash away their sins and would not. Let us all weep for these in private and in public, but with propriety, with gravity, not so as to make exhibitions of ourselves; let us weep for these, not one day, or two, but all our life. Such tears spring not from senseless passion, but from true affection. The other sort are of senseless passion. For this cause they are quickly quenched, whereas if they spring from the fear of God, they always abide with us. Let us weep for these; let us assist them according to our power; let us think of some assistance for them, small though it be, yet still let us assist them. How and in what way? By praying and entreating others to make prayers for them, by continually giving to the poor on their behalf." John Chrysostom, Homilies on Phillipians, 3 (ante A.D. 404).

    "If the baptized person fulfills the obligations demanded of a Christian, he does well. If he does not--provided he keeps the faith, without which he would perish forever--no matter in what sin or impurity remains, he will be saved, as it were, by fire; as one who has built on the foundation, which is Christ, not gold, silver, and precious stones, but wood, hay straw, that is, not just and chasted works but wicked and unchaste works." Augustine, Faith and Works, 1:1 (A.D. 413).

    "Now on what ground does this person pray that he may not be 'rebuked in indignation, nor chastened in hot displeasure"? He speaks as if he would say unto God, 'Since the things which I already suffer are many in number, I pray Thee let them suffice;' and he begins to enumerate them, by way of satisfying God; offering what he suffers now, that he may not have to suffer worse evils hereafter." Augustine, Exposition of the Psalms, 38(37):3 (A.D. 418).

    "And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubtful, whether some believers shall pass through a kind of purgatorial fire, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the goods that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they 'shall not inherit the kingdom of God,' unless after suitable repentance their sins be forgiven them. When I say 'suitable,' I mean that they are not to be unfruitful in almsgiving; for Holy Scripture lays so much stress on this virtue, that our Lord tells us beforehand, that He will ascribe no merit to those on His right hand but that they abound in it, and no defect to those on His left hand but their want of it, when He shall say to the former, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom," and to the latter, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire.'" Augustine, Enchiridion, 69 (A.D. 421).

    "During the time, moreover, which intervenes between a man's death and the final resurrection, the soul dwells in a hidden retreat, where it enjoys rest or suffers affliction just in proportion to the merit it has earned by the life which it led on earth." Augustine, Enchiridion, 1099 (A.D. 421).

    "For our part, we recognize that even in this life some punishments are purgatorial,--not, indeed, to those whose life is none the better, but rather the worse for them, but to those who are constrained by them to amend their life. All other punishments, whether temporal or eternal, inflicted as they are on every one by divine providence, are sent either on account of past sins, or of sins presently allowed in the life, or to exercise and reveal a man's graces. They may be inflicted by the instrumentality of bad men and angels as well as of the good. For even if any one suffers some hurt through another's wickedness or mistake, the man indeed sins whose ignorance or injustice does the harm; but God, who by His just though hidden judgment permits it to be done, sins not. But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come." Augustine, City of God, 21:13 (A.D. 426).

    "But since she has this certainty regarding no man, she prays for all her enemies who yet live in this world; and yet she is not heard in behalf of all. But she is heard in the case of those only who, though they oppose the Church, are yet predestinated to become her sons through her intercession...For some of the dead, indeed, the prayer of the Church or of pious individuals is heard; but it is for those who, having been regenerated in Christ, did not spend their life so wickedly that they can be judged unworthy of such compassion, nor so well that they can be considered to have no need of it. As also, after the resurrection, there will be some of the dead to whom, after they have endured the pains proper to the spirits of the dead, mercy shall be accorded, and acquittal from the punishment of the eternal fire. For were there not some whose sins, though not remitted in this life, shall be remitted in that which is to come, it could not be truly said, "They shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in that which is to come.' But when the Judge of quick and dead has said, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world,' and to those on the other side, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels,' and 'These shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life,' it were excessively presumptuous to say that the punishment of any of those whom God has said shall go away into eternal punishment shall not be eternal, and so bring either despair or doubt upon the corresponding promise of life eternal." Augustine, City of God,2 1:24 (A.D. 426).

    "If we neither give thanks to God in tribulations nor redeem our own sins by good works, we shall have to remain in that purgatorian fire as long as it takes for those above-mentioned lesser sins to be consumed like wood and straw and hay." Ceasar of Arles, Sermon 179 (104):2 (A.D. 542).
    "Each one will be presented to the Judge exactly as he was when he departed this life. Yet, there must be a cleansing fire before judgment, because of some minor faults that may remain to be purged away. Does not Christ, the Truth, say that if anyone blasphemes against the Holy Spirit he shall not be forgiven 'either in this world or in the world to come'(Mt. 12:32)? From this statement we learn that some sins can be forgiven in this world and some in the world to come. For, if forgiveness is refused for a particular sin, we conclude logically that it is granted for others. This must apply, as I said, to slight transgressions." Gregory the Great [regn. A.D. 590-604], Dialogues, 4:39 (A.D. 594).
    What you have firmly established here, and in the thread you entitled "Jesus founded the Catholic Church" beyond a shadow of any doubt whatsoever, is the sure fact of ecclesiastical history that the church of Christ was very early riven asunder with heresy, even from the first centuries, just as Paul and the other apostles warned would happen, 'grievous wolves entering the church not sparing the flock'.
    This abominable heresy took its form in many guises, but its general direction was downward, and further and further away from the Lord. Its pace accelerated in the sixth century when the bishops of Rome coveted the civil power of the absent Roman pagan emperors, and the beast from hell began to take shape. Early usurping the true authority of Jesus Christ and claiming rule over heaven, the earth, and even hell.
    When others disagreed with this, and claimed the scriptures and the Author of them as their authority, the bishops of Rome, now granting themselves the title 'pontifex maximus' after the order of the Caesars, began persecuting dissenters with the same vigour as the former occupants of the Roman throne. Revealing the true nature of their unconverted hearts, these opposers of truth and righteousness became bitter enemies of Christ, hardened in their wickedness until the fruits of their rebelliousness found joy in killing as many as possible those who refused to bow their knees to Baal, audaciously giving their iniquitous practice an official title as if to lend it some spiritual value, the Inquisition. It is considered by conservative historians that between 50 and 100 million people have died at the hands of the church of Rome over matters of conscience over the 1200 odd years of her initial reign. (From the sixth century to the 18th.)
    This self proclaimed "right" to punish, persecute, and even kill all who they claim as 'heretics', is one that the church of Rome would still practice today if they had but the freedom to do so. But the Bible does say that soon she will have that freedom, even more so the approbation and support of protestant apostasy, and once again any who dare refuse to recognise papal authority will face the hatred and enmity of Rome.
    So the early church "fathers" taught and believed in purgatory? No, not quite. They believed in praying for the dead, yes, but the doctrine of purgatory didn't come about until Gregory 1 in 593. That was just one of the first steps down the long road to rock bottom. Prayers for the dead, the sign of the cross, wax candles, veneration of dead saints and angels, the 'mass', the beginning of the exaltation of Mary, priests adorning themselves different from laymen, extreme unction, the 'official' declaration of purgatory by Gregory in 593, kissing of the popes foot in 709, universal temporal power claimed in 709, official sanction of the worship of the cross and images and relics in 786, and on and on and on. In 1229 the Bible was forbidden to be read by laymen, and placed on the index of 'forbidden books'.
    Anyone caught copying the Bible in the language of the common people and disseminating same was burnt at the stake and his work along with him. Or if the church was too late in catching the culprit, they exhumed his remains and disposed of it elsewhere.
    As recently as 1864 the Bible was placed on the "Syllabus of Errors" by Pius X. Ratified by the first Vatican council as the 'truth of God', this syllabus condemned freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press.
    At the height of her power the papacy had become the world's despot. Kings and Emperors alike bowed and cringed before the haughty arrogance of the popes. Dissenters were mercilessly sought and butchered. And today, Benedict 16 is avidly coveting civil power again. Shamelessly promoting himself as the only candidate with the 'moral mandate of the people', he even now is eyeing the leadership of the coming new world order as the vehicle upon which the papacy will once again rise to the ascendant heights of world dominion. And once again, Babylon the Great will be drunk with the blood of the saints.
    And this is the church founded by Jesus?
    Kia noho nui te kupu a te Karaiti i roto i a koutou i runga i te matauranga katoa....Coll. 3:16

  6. #6
    Member B-A-C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Online
    05-22-13
    Posts
    1,081
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    United States
    Location
    Washington
    What an amazing post.
    Augustine, Abercius, Clement, Tertullian, Basil, Jerome...
    Quite a list of names. I'm sure they were important people.
    None of them are mentioned in the Bible. None of them wrote any parts of the Bible. None of them were apostles or disciples. None of them were prophets, or leaders of Israel, or a judge or king of the Jews. When Jesus mentioned the prophets of the OT (Matt 23:35 and Luke 11:51) he started with Abel (Genesis, first book of the OT) and ended with Zechariah (2nd to the last book of the OT, but written after Malachi), he didn't mention any of the books of the apocrypha, even though they were written before he came to earth... I have to wonder why he didn't recognize them?

    Nearly 5000 words, and I saw only 1 scripture. (Matt 12:32 I believe).
    I see dates of 200, 300 and 400 AD. Possibly they are even valid, I won't dispute those people said these things on those dates.

    We can believe what other people say about Christianity, or we can believe the Bible and the people who wrote it themselves. They don't always agree, so which one should we choose?

    Luke 16:22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
    Luke 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
    Luke 16:24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
    hmm.. you die.. you go to Paradise (Abrahams's bosom) or you go to Hell (hades) no purgatory here.

    2Co 5:6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--
    2Co 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight--
    2Co 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
    ..we are in the body, or we are with the Lord, no middle place.. no purgatory here.

    Jesus told the thief on the cross...
    Luke 23:42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"
    Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
    .. Jesus didn't say next week, next year, or once "you've earned it". No purgatory here.

    Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
    ..once we die, that's it. No second chances, no purgatory.

    If we can "earn" our way into heaven, by.. being "good enough", or praying enough, or giving enough money to the church, or doing good deeds, what do we need Jesus for?
    If our salvation can be changed after we are dead, by other people praying for us.. what do we need Jesus for?

    We are saved by Jesus alone. Either you believe in him when you die, or you don't. There is no second opportunity for this to change after you die.

    There will be a day, when everyone will realize who Jesus is.
    Rom 14:11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
    Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

    We can do it now willingly, or we can say it and recognize it too late.. but either way, we all will know who Jesus is.
    Last edited by B-A-C; 02-09-12 at 10:30 AM.
    *- BAC -*

  7. #7
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Online
    02-19-12
    Posts
    7
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    United States
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mike View Post
    You find it funny in what others believe? Many Protestants do not believe in rapture here, if you would take the time to check the forums.
    I find it funny because those that believe in the Rapture, also claim that the Catholic Church invented Purgatory, which is exactly the opposite; Purgatory has always been believed, the Rapture was the doctrine that was invented

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-13
    Posts
    1,081
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Canada
    Location
    In a house
    Quote Originally Posted by ucs1923 View Post
    I find it funny because those that believe in the Rapture, also claim that the Catholic Church invented Purgatory, which is exactly the opposite; Purgatory has always been believed, the Rapture was the doctrine that was invented

    Again, Friend, where is the scripture to prove your Purgatory?

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Online
    01-29-13
    Posts
    1,778
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Australia
    Location
    Sydney

    Hello ucs1923.

    Rapture is not a biblical word I agree, but the apostle Paul
    did describe an event which sure sounds similar. Read the
    text below ucs1923.

    1 Thessalonians 4:17

    Then we who are alive an
    d remain shall be caught up together with
    them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
    And thus we shall always be with the
    Lord
    .


    Rising up into the air to be with the Lord is also found in the Old and New Testaments.
    Even Jesus disappeared into the clouds in Acts.


    This not what Christians have invented, this is what is written.
    Last edited by David777; 02-10-12 at 06:27 PM.
    Deal with it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-13
    Posts
    1,081
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Canada
    Location
    In a house
    Quote Originally Posted by David777 View Post
    Rapture is not a biblical word I agree, but the apostle Paul
    did describe an event which sure sounds similar. Read the
    text below ucs1923.

    1 Thessalonians 4:17

    Then we who are alive an
    d remain shall be caught up together with
    them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
    And thus we shall always be with the
    Lord
    .


    Rising up into the air to be with the Lord is also found in the Old and New Testaments.
    Even Jesus disappeared into the clouds in Acts.


    This not what Christians have invented, this is what is written.
    Yup That fits Hence the word Ratpure.....
    Rapture

    [rap-cher]   Origin
    rap·ture

       [rap-cher] Show IPA noun, verb -tured, -tur·ing.
    noun 1. ecstatic joy or delight; joyful ecstasy.

    2. Often, raptures. an utterance or expression of ecstatic delight.

    3. the carrying of a person to another place or sphere of existence.

    4. the Rapture, Theology . the experience, anticipated by some fundamentalist Christians, of meeting Christ midway in the air upon his return to earth.

    5. Archaic . the act of carrying off.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Early Christian Attitudes/ Charity
    By Coconut in forum Ethics & Morality
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-13-08, 05:17 PM
  2. Purgatory
    By Penguins4123 in forum Evidence & Bible Prophecy
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 10-20-08, 10:33 AM
  3. Heresies in the Early Christian Church
    By Coconut in forum Evidence & Bible Prophecy
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-08-06, 12:09 PM
  4. Early Christian Church Unearthed
    By Coconut in forum Evidence & Bible Prophecy
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-28-06, 07:10 PM
  5. Early Christian Art
    By Coconut in forum Evidence & Bible Prophecy
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-16-06, 12:37 PM

Thread Participants: 10

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us

Welcome to Talk Jesus Forums! If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. You will need to register before you can post. Our Purpose: spread the Good News to the ends of the Earth [Mark 16:15]. We're also here to edify the church [Ephesians 4:11-12]. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. We love you and glad you are here!

 

ask & you shall receive...

Please feel comfortable and ask your questions freely in the appropriate forum. As a community, we will help you find the answers about Jesus / GOD, Bible, general life questions and so forth. We're here to support you and each other.

 

faq forum etiquette surprise me! the evidence topical studies
let's socialize
Today's Verse
Facebook Tweet StumbleUpon Digg Email Print Share
shares