Hi im trying to understand mat 24 where Jesus talks about tribulation and rapture (and His coming).

I am told that we are to be ready for Lord's coming and that no one knows the day nor hour but in mat 24 Jesus also gives us signs that will come before His coming.
Also He says the tribulation that will preceed His coming is so strong that unless those days were shortened no flesh would be saved.


Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Mat 24:22-23 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.


After the tribulation there will be signs:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Coming of Lord and Rapture:

Mat 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We know:

Mat 24:32-33 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: (33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

We are to watch:

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


So how are we to look at this? I recon the tribulation has not started yet.
What are we watching? Why we are given signs before Lord's coming and yet we don't know when He comes?
Are we to watch after the tribulation as we know the end is near?

Matt 24

it's a warning for us to be constantly alert, always in a state of Spiritual preparedness

That's the short answer

Originally Posted by judge not

Matt 24

it's a warning for us to be constantly alert, always in a state of Spiritual preparedness

That's the short answer

i am not sure if that is the message.

some other things are unclear as well.

God bless

I have been trying to work these out myself as I believe the tribulation may start any day now. For now I am led to believe that there will be some who avoid the tribulation and others of the church who must go through it. Jesus is speaking to those who are going to go through it and not be spared the testing of all men upon the face of the earth. It seems certain that despite all of the chaos of the judgments people will still be functioning somewhat normal as there will be those sleeping in bed, grinding at the mill and on the rooftop as well as out in the field. We will have to see.

Gary

Hi Jari! It is late and I have a big math test tomorrow in school, but I happen to know a thing or two about Matthew 24, as I did a big study on it a few months ago.
You may or may not agree with me, though.
I would suggest you read Matthew 24 together with Revelation 6.

Let's look at Matthew chapter 24:

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Seal #1: The White Horse - Revelation 6:2 )


"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars" (Seal #2: The Red Horse - Revelation 6:4)


"there shall be famines" (Seal #3: The Black Horse - Revelation 6:5-6)


"and pestilences" (Seal #4: The Pale Horse - Revelation 6:8)


"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you" (Seal #5: Martyrdom - Revelation 6:9-10)


"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains" (The Jews flee into the wilderness - Revelation 12:6)


"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

In other words, for the sake of the true Christians, these days will be shortened when Christ's kingdom smashes into earth and replaces all of man's governments.


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" (Seal #6: The Heavens are shaken - Revelation 6:12-13)

Because of the time flow between Matthew 24 and Revelation 12, I believe the heavens will be shaken because of a war between Michael and Satan. (Revelation 12:7)


"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

After the 6 seals, the seven trumpets start. At the last trump, all current saints still on earth, and all the saints who are sleeping will be changed and/or brought back to life. (1 Corinthians 15:51-52)


"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."


"Now learn a parable of the fig tree" (Revelation 6 so obviously ties in with Matthew 24, as even the same fig tree is mentioned! - Revelation 6:13)


Jari, I believe Christ is warning us of all the signs before His coming. Watch out for false Christianity (just like the imposter version of Christ who rides the white horse), watch out of wars, watch out for famines and pestilences, martyrdom and the heavens to be shaken!


I believe we are at the second seal right now. We have many imposters for Christ and there are many wars and rumors of wars.
Famine (worldwide starvation crisis) has not taken place yet. But in many countries it has, and if you look at many country's debts they owe, you can see that the Black Horse is on his way!
A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny!!


I hope this was of some help to you?
If not, I still tried! Hahaha

The Book of Revelation
There are actually Seven Seals that were opened. Rev 8:1
The Seventh Seal is divided into Seven trumpets that reveal further events and plagues leading up to the return of Jesus Christ.
I believe we have experienced effects of the first 5 Seals since the time of the apostles but will reach its greatest fulfillment and culmination in the last days. We are nearing the 6th Seal after the tribulation.
Persecution for Christians today is worse than when the church was in its early stages and the 5th seal is ongoing and will reach its climax in the very near future based on the escalation factors.

None of the seals have been opened.

The first seal alone brings many nations to be conquered. That has not happened.

The second seal removes all the peace that was on earth.... Not happened yet.

The third seal brings famine, not to the places that are already hungry, but to those like Europe and places that have food now. It does not fully destroy everything, but sets up the Barter system and mark forcing people to accept the false prophet so they can eat.

The fourth seal destroys 1/4 of the population of this earth, no question this has not been released yet.

fifth seal is the Altar of souls,

sixth seal ........ I think you get it.

Check out these threads:

http://www.talkjesus.com/ethics-mora...nd-coming.html

Satan's final Defeat...

The Rapture

Jesus Is Lord

when the great tribulation happens, it will not be something one can miss.

i believe we are given signs so that those with faith will not lose their faith in those perilous time. the great trib is supposed to be second to none in suffering and wickedness as far as any other time period on earth. and by reading the book of lamentations you can see back then women ate thier babies. so, the great trib will be harsh. epic suffering on the most grandiose scale.
we dont know because Jesus didnt know and he told us all he did know. If we knew we could prepare (maybe) with underground bunkers and food and water. but God wants us to rely on him and not horde stuff up like that fella that stocked his barns full but God told him you fool your soul is required of thee this hour.
as far as watching after i dont know. its all i can do to watch for it to start. and there is plenty to be watching these days.

Originally Posted by Brother Mike

difference between rapture and the second coming

the bottom line was for this thread that they are the same...... I dont know how can we look at them as different? Since mathew 24 verses seems to be in chronocial order.
to argue that rapture & second coming must be different just because how we see we should be treated is not good in my opinion. Jesus says in mat 24 we will be hated by all men AND if those days werent shortened no flesh would be saved but for elects sake they are.
Note elect cannot mean jews or anything like that because these instructions were given to us christians.. And Jesus said YOU will be taken to court as witness to them. Luk 21:12
so i think He meant us christians...

I agree with Jari. According to Matthew, it doesn't seem like there will be a rapture before the tribulation. It seems as if all Christians will face the tribulation.

The only rapture I'm aware that the Bible speaks of is when Christ gathers up the saints.
So the question is, will Christ return one or two more times?

If Christ returns to gather the saints before the tribulation, then he returns again, that means Christ will return twice!

I think Christ will only return once, myself.