Originally Posted by judge not

What is your understanding for salvation?

The simple answer is Salvation is achieved by complete submission to God. You ask what is absolutely necessary for salvation. Is baptism required? Is following the 10 commandments plus the 'new' commandment required for salvation? What list of things do I need to accomplish before I die in order to be saved?

There is only one condition for salvation. Faith. Saving Faith.

What does that look like?

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The Gospel according to Gary: In the beginning God created everything and there was perfect order of all things. God as God. Lucifer as an Angel in heaven. Adam and Eve as man on Earth in complete submission to God, with total reliance on him for understanding of good and evil. Iniquity was found within Lucifer and he fell from his place in heaven like lightening to earth where he subsequently deceived Eve into disobeying God by obeying his voice as God instead. After Adam willfully disobeyed Gods command the whole creation was subjected to vanity for the hope of salvation for man. God promised to fix the problem for all who would believe his promise.

God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten Son that those who are in the world might not cause themselves to perish through disbelief but rather be given eternal life by Jesus if only they would bow the knee and obey him as King. Confessing him as Lord, which means to agree with God that Jesus Christ is the rightful heir of the World and then conform your every deed into that which justifies the faith you claim to have.

Upon believing the Gospel of God one is given the Holy Spirit of God to indwell and guide him into all truth. The Holy Spirit also lives through the believer to convict the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgement. Those ordained to life believe. Those ordained to death either run away from the truth stopping up their ears or they turn and try to destroy the light that is in their presence.

In the name of Christ the Lord of Heaven and Earth,

Gary

Acts 2:38 - " Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." also receiving the laying -on-of hands is necessary for the reception of the Holy spirit
faith or belief is not enough- " Faith if it hath not works, is dead " James2:17

So Saving faith means embracing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior with all it's responsibilities and finally burying our old self in the watery grave of baptism along with the receiving of the laying on of hands to receive the Holy spirit-this is the way the Bible shows Salvation can be achieved.
and even all this is just the beginning -'and he that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
why would Jesus urge us to overcome if there is nothing further we must do once we have accepted Him as Savior?

Originally Posted by judge not

why would Jesus urge us to overcome if there is nothing further we must do once we have accepted Him as Savior?

What would prompt you to ask such a question?

Originally Posted by judge not

Acts 2:38 - " Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." also receiving the laying -on-of hands is necessary for the reception of the Holy spirit
faith or belief is not enough- " Faith if it hath not works, is dead " James2:17

So Saving faith means embracing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior with all it's responsibilities and finally burying our old self in the watery grave of baptism along with the receiving of the laying on of hands to receive the Holy spirit-this is the way the Bible shows Salvation can be achieved.
and even all this is just the beginning -'and he that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
why would Jesus urge us to overcome if there is nothing further we must do once we have accepted Him as Savior?

Wrong!!!!

If I meet a man out on a fishing trip and tell him about Jesus and he accepts and believes, he is saved. I do not have to drown him and I do not have to lay hands on him. The only requirement is for him to hear, to accept and to believe.

As for works, this would be a work on my part. If he believes and puts ten bucks in the salvation army pot , when he used to just walk on by , this is a work on his part.

If I have a million dollars and I do all kinds of good things with it and say God does not exist. I am not saved. Works alone will not save me, ........now I can debate this one, as if I am basically a good man and have not committed serious sins, I will be judged. God is not evil and not without understanding. So I would leave that one up to God.

Works are a result of acceptance and belief. One is with the other and one is the result of the other and both are the same, as one cannot be in truth without the other.

In the beginning God created the law, and the law and tradition of water baptism was required, it was a symbol of things just as circumcision was a symbol of the agreement between God and his people. So at that time it was a time of law.

We are no longer under tradition, culture, law, and all those things. It is all done, and it its place is Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

So any person, anywhere, in any situation, can accept Christ and obtain salvation. There are no stings and no other requirements. Just by simple and truthful acceptance they are saved.

Now the traditions of man, are important, not saying that they are not as they for man symbolize the acceptance and cause strength to it. Laying on of hands and the emotions with that, strengthen but are not required. To be around other Christians and to fellowship is good, as it helps guide people. But it is the Holy spirit who guides and leads just like now as I cry Wrong!!!

This idea of works is a dandy. It causes many to turn from Christ and Satan will use the words of other men to make the first man feel like he is insignificant, or worthless and or cannot help and do great works to be saved. He may not be able to afford to do anything but support his family or buy food, and for sure cannot help much in money matters. He cannot father a ministry, he does not even have the money to put in the car to go to church, so he is with eyes downcast told by other men, you are worthless. WRONG!!!

His works can be many, he accepts and that day he gives his wife a hug , he is more understanding and seeks peace. He can volunteer his time as this costs nothing, he can put ten bucks in the salvation army pot and is further ahead than the one who can afford to put in 100 but drops in a quarter.

Works are not required, but are a form of the change. When one accepts Christ, the faith in Christ, results in works, be they small or large. One of the main works is the change in a person.

Traditions, law and culture, laying on of hands not required. Reading into and adding requirements not required. These are things of men.

Christ simply says, I am the way, come to me and ask and I will give to you.

It is as simple as that.

Kit

Originally Posted by gdemoss

What would prompt you to ask such a question?

Jesus is the one offering the promises if we overcome
" To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God ....." Revelation 2:7-28
Why does Jesus keep promising us the gift of life to us who overcomes and does his will to the end if we already are saved?
And what does overcome mean/-to conquer, or prevail over our common enemy-sin. Resisting temptation is a daily battle.
If we believe we are saved after repentance for past sins and accepting Jesus as our savior then we are going down the wrong path of our spiritual journey. The Bible warns of such misconceptions. The apostles warn converted Christians to flee from sin lest we should fall away from grace.
It's up to you to decide what the right road to eternity is.

Originally Posted by Kit Carson

Wrong!!!!

If I meet a man out on a fishing trip and tell him about Jesus and he accepts and believes, he is saved. I do not have to drown him and I do not have to lay hands on him. The only requirement is for him to hear, to accept and to believe.

As for works, this would be a work on my part. If he believes and puts ten bucks in the salvation army pot , when he used to just walk on by , this is a work on his part.

If I have a million dollars and I do all kinds of good things with it and say God does not exist. I am not saved. Works alone will not save me, ........now I can debate this one, as if I am basically a good man and have not committed serious sins, I will be judged. God is not evil and not without understanding. So I would leave that one up to God.

Works are a result of acceptance and belief. One is with the other and one is the result of the other and both are the same, as one cannot be in truth without the other.

In the beginning God created the law, and the law and tradition of water baptism was required, it was a symbol of things just as circumcision was a symbol of the agreement between God and his people. So at that time it was a time of law.

We are no longer under tradition, culture, law, and all those things. It is all done, and it its place is Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

So any person, anywhere, in any situation, can accept Christ and obtain salvation. There are no stings and no other requirements. Just by simple and truthful acceptance they are saved.

Now the traditions of man, are important, not saying that they are not as they for man symbolize the acceptance and cause strength to it. Laying on of hands and the emotions with that, strengthen but are not required. To be around other Christians and to fellowship is good, as it helps guide people. But it is the Holy spirit who guides and leads just like now as I cry Wrong!!!

This idea of works is a dandy. It causes many to turn from Christ and Satan will use the words of other men to make the first man feel like he is insignificant, or worthless and or cannot help and do great works to be saved. He may not be able to afford to do anything but support his family or buy food, and for sure cannot help much in money matters. He cannot father a ministry, he does not even have the money to put in the car to go to church, so he is with eyes downcast told by other men, you are worthless. WRONG!!!

His works can be many, he accepts and that day he gives his wife a hug , he is more understanding and seeks peace. He can volunteer his time as this costs nothing, he can put ten bucks in the salvation army pot and is further ahead than the one who can afford to put in 100 but drops in a quarter.

Works are not required, but are a form of the change. When one accepts Christ, the faith in Christ, results in works, be they small or large. One of the main works is the change in a person.

Traditions, law and culture, laying on of hands not required. Reading into and adding requirements not required. These are things of men.

Christ simply says, I am the way, come to me and ask and I will give to you.

It is as simple as that.

Kit

Sorry that was too long a quote for me to post but if you could look at this Acts 8:-this was after the death and resurrection and ascension of Jesus-they were now preaching the gospel.
let's say starting at verse 12 -
" But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the Kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13- Then Simon himself believed also and when he was baptized he continued with Philip....
14- Now when the Apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John.
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost
16- ( For as yet he (the Holy Ghost ) was fallen upon none of them; only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17- Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy ghost
18- And when Simon saw that through laying on of the Apostle's hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money.

baptizing and laying on off hands to receive the HS continued long after Jesus death and resurrection.
If it wasn't necessary anymore wouldn't the Apostles be the first to know since they received all their training and power from Jesus.
Believing was fine, but it wasn't enough. You have to be baptized and laying on off hands.
False doctrine has taken over the most important concept of salvation because of misinterpretation of scripture.
I'm sticking with what the Bible says......

Originally Posted by judge not

Jesus is the one offering the promises if we overcome
" To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God ....." Revelation 2:7-28
Why does Jesus keep promising us the gift of life to us who overcomes and does his will to the end if we already are saved?
And what does overcome mean/-to conquer, or prevail over our common enemy-sin. Resisting temptation is a daily battle.
If we believe we are saved after repentance for past sins and accepting Jesus as our savior then we are going down the wrong path of our spiritual journey. The Bible warns of such misconceptions. The apostles warn converted Christians to flee from sin lest we should fall away from grace.
It's up to you to decide what the right road to eternity is.

You misunderstand my question. What makes you think I believe as you think I do. I don't believe I ever said anything remotely close to what you perceive that I have said.

I pray that God will help us be easily understood by each other,

Gary

Originally Posted by judge not

Sorry that was too long a quote for me to post but if you could look at this Acts 8:-this was after the death and resurrection and ascension of Jesus-they were now preaching the gospel.
let's say starting at verse 12 -
" But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the Kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13- Then Simon himself believed also and when he was baptized he continued with Philip....
14- Now when the Apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John.
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost
16- ( For as yet he (the Holy Ghost ) was fallen upon none of them; only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17- Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy ghost
18- And when Simon saw that through laying on of the Apostle's hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money.

baptizing and laying on off hands to receive the HS continued long after Jesus death and resurrection.
If it wasn't necessary anymore wouldn't the Apostles be the first to know since they received all their training and power from Jesus.
Believing was fine, but it wasn't enough. You have to be baptized and laying on off hands.
False doctrine has taken over the most important concept of salvation because of misinterpretation of scripture.
I'm sticking with what the Bible says......

Yes Sir the Bible says that, in black and white. But..........

Taking parts without the understanding of the whole is where the danger is.

This is a story of a Sorcerer. A man called Simon, who had his way and wanted to buy eventually the power the Apostles had with money. He wanted to be like them and to have their power.

The true Apostles heard of the word of God being preached to the people in Samaria. When you read the entire context you find that the Apostles had to step in and correct things as the true word was not being preached and the man doing so still had not repented himself.

So this was a special case, for a special time and circumstance. A case where the truth had to step in to correct false teaching even at that time. I believe if you read the entire chapter 8 you will understand the reasons for this and the why.

Jesus simply says I am the way. Believe on me and I will give you salvation by grace. It is so very simple.

In the world of today, especially there are false teachings in every church, in all walks of life, people simply do not believe and rely on men to save them. So hundreds of ideas are born, and old ways and old traditions are held up as the way. Even Jesus used to fuss at the Jews about old traditions and cultures and tell them to walk away from them. And some of these are easily seen in the bible. Even with the Apostles you see opinion and tradition, from one of them not wanting to eat with circumcised or not circumcised and Paul saying for a woman to be silent and so on. Then it is said that there is neither male nor female, and people jump all over that and say this justifies sexual immorality, when it simply means man and woman are equal, forget your silly tradition.

There seems to be no common sense today either, no true and total acceptance of God. Man is intent on his way, his tradition and seems to forget that true acceptance brings the Holy spirit direct from God.

Well let me shut up....Lol! I am not a preacher, just a man who does believe in God and what he puts in my heart. I can cause a preacher to have to eat a whole bottle of antacid......but Jesus says, I am the way, you come direct to me and I will answer you. You come to me and I will teach you, and you will learn the truth and the way to sort out the truth.

Most of that laying on of hands and stuff today is for men. For their own pride and way, just like the man called Simon. The sorcerer.

Do not say some of it is not real, do not say that at all, but much of it is false.

So the direct way is to run to God, ask Jesus for salvation and he will grant it.

Simple question, is the man on the battlefield who is dying, with a leg blown off, who accepts Christ, who has no water baptism and the only laying on of hand is the application of a compression bandage, is he saved?? He who cries out my name, he who believes in me I will answer.
Men live in fear, and other men promote this fear, and men worry, as for me I accept Christ with joy and confidence. I believe on Christ and I am very wary of men.

Kit

Originally Posted by judge not

Jesus is the one offering the promises if we overcome
" To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God ....." Revelation 2:7-28
Why does Jesus keep promising us the gift of life to us who overcomes and does his will to the end if we already are saved?
And what does overcome mean/-to conquer, or prevail over our common enemy-sin.

Here is what the Bible declares an over-comer to be.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Originally Posted by judge not

baptizing and laying on off hands to receive the HS continued long after Jesus death and resurrection.
If it wasn't necessary anymore wouldn't the Apostles be the first to know since they received all their training and power from Jesus.
Believing was fine, but it wasn't enough. You have to be baptized and laying on off hands.
False doctrine has taken over the most important concept of salvation because of misinterpretation of scripture.
I'm sticking with what the Bible says......

You are sticking with part of what the Bible says, what about Acts 10:34-48 where the Holy Spirit fell upon men before they were ever baptized and then laying on of hands is never mentioned here?

Baptism is an outward expression of an inward decision. It is an acknowledgement of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection through an action. So whether one believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth Jesus as Lord, dead and raised, or whether one repents and is baptized both are saved because both of these actions, the one verbally and the other in deed, confess Jesus' death and resurrection, Jesus as God and our need to make him Lord of our lives.

Originally Posted by Gmart

Baptism is an outward expression of an inward decision. It is an acknowledgement of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection through an action. So whether one believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth Jesus as Lord, dead and raised, or whether one repents and is baptized both are saved because both of these actions, the one verbally and the other in deed, confess Jesus' death and resurrection, Jesus as God and our need to make him Lord of our lives.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

How does a man make himself righteous by believing Jesus is Christ?

How does a man save himself by declaring Jesus is Lord to others?

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Why would a man be ashamed for not believing on him?

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death

For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

The Apostle Paul is a clear declaration of why a man who believes in Christ shall not be ashamed before him at his coming. Many will be ashamed, Paul isn't one of them.

Sin is what shames. Knowing what it is and continuing in it. A man who believes that Jesus is the righteousness of God manifest in the flesh puts on the Lord Jesus and will in turn not be ashamed at his coming.

Be ye not deceived, he who doeth righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous and we can have boldness in the day of judgement if we walk as he walked. There is no law against it.

Close your 'eyes' and see through Gods,

Gary