Revelation 21:23-25





²³And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

²⁴And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

²⁵And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.


an example of being saved in the end

are there nations saved today?
yet there will be nations saved in the end time.

when reading God's word we are told to read his word and teach his word line upon line precept upon precept, here a little and there a little

Isaiah 28

⁹Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.


¹⁰For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

¹¹For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

¹²To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
¹³But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

nowhere it God's word are we told to read it in context.

this is why we have so many interpretations like OSAS

how do you know you are saved when the righteous are scarcely saved?


1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

did the Lord ever say he was saved?

how about the apostles, surely one prophet had to say they were saved?

no not one even one apostle or prophet said they were saved,

who then can be saved?

Mark 10:25-27



²⁵It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

²⁶And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
²⁷And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Jesus saves

so when are you really saved?

when Jesus returns.

the question need to be asked

what are we saved from?

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

How about reading it the way the Lord said read his word?

I'm trying to follow your position on this so answers like this don't really help.That simply infers that I am incapable of interpreting scripture properly.

I follow what your saying so far but there is much to consider.
I am receiving with all readiness of mind and I need to search the scriptures to see whether these things are so.
There are some issues with time(or the lack of it)fitting into what you have presented.

Example:
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This happened 2000 years ago.How do I fit that in with waiting until the end?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

What are we waiting for,the hour "now is"?

Thiscrosshurts;187831]Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I'm trying to follow your position on this so answers like this don't really help.That simply infers that I am incapable of interpreting scripture properly.

this is not my intent to humiliate, so please don't become emotional with me. the way we are to read God's word is written and my intent was to put the scripture for support. I don't know what you are incapable of doing this is why i can't agree wit your response.

I follow what your saying so far but there is much to consider.
I am receiving with all readiness of mind and I need to search the scriptures to see whether these things are so.
There are some issues with time(or the lack of it)fitting into what you have presented.

this is why I'm putting verses and scriptures because of your openness. I don't expect you to get what I put right away but what I hope is that you read the scriptures and verses and connect them with the topic\subject

Example:
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This happened 2000 years ago.How do I fit that in with waiting until the end?

show me where anyone has set with Jesus and the Father in heavenly places.

yet I can read to you where no man has ascended up to heaven except Jesus when he was in the flesh

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


so this verse cancel out Ephesians as far as man sitting with Jesus in heaven

so we look else where for answers.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

What are we waiting for,the hour "now is"?

the hour is coming when all the dead will hear Jesus voice

lets go read that

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

when the Lord shouted what happened the dead was raised

again lets read

Revelation 11:11-13

⁷And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

<sup>8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

11</sup>And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.



¹²And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
¹³And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

come up hither were the words spoken/shouted these are the words that the dead heard when Jesus came.

again please don't take it personal I do not humiliate people, nor do I embarrass them.

peace in Jesus

show me where anyone has set with Jesus and the Father in heavenly places.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The term hath raised means past event but does not necessarily apply to our time constrained universe.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus said this before he ascended into heaven.He was standing in our universe in our timeline.But he was obviously referring to something out of time.He was the son of man and he claimed he was in heaven at that moment.Ephesians was written after he had gone to be with the Father(ascended)Ephesians was written after Jesus resurrection and it's message is pegged to the resurrection so I doubt it's message is canceled.

We must be born from above.The man from above is the new creature created in Christ.The old man can never ascend,only the one who came from above.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The seed of God is the new man born from above.He was born from God that's why he cannot sin.The old man is born of flesh and can never be sinless.We have to put on the new man.

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Thiscrosshurts;187849]Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The term hath raised means past event but does not necessarily apply to our time constrained universe.

when in our time?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus said this before he ascended into heaven.He was standing in our universe in our timeline.But he was obviously referring to something out of time.He was the son of man and he claimed he was in heaven at that moment.Ephesians was written after he had gone to be with the Father(ascended)Ephesians was written after Jesus resurrection and it's message is pegged to the resurrection so I doubt it's message is canceled.

what does John 3v13 say?

no man has ascended to heaven, this is what we read in the verse. no other interpretation is needed.

We must be born from above.The man from above is the new creature created in Christ.The old man can never ascend,only the one who came from above.

when are we born from above?

right now we are born from the earth.

^{Gensis 2
7}And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 3

¹⁷And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

¹⁸Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt
eat the herb of the field;
¹⁹In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


man is from the earth and goes back to the earth

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The seed of God is the new man born from above.He was born from God that's why he cannot sin.The old man is born of flesh and can never be sinless.We have to put on the new man.

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

where are we free from sin?

right now we are from the earth we are flesh until the fitst resurrection.

<sup>Paul is telling these gentiles that they must change there way of thinking /? ,
why there way 0f thinking, becuase if it was a spiritual lesson paul would not hje said put away lyinhg, steal no more
People born again cant sin.


Ephesian 4.
22</sup>That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

²³And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
²⁴And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
²⁵Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
²⁶Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
²⁷Neither give place to the devil.
²⁸Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
²⁹Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. ³⁰And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.