Blessings RJ... first your my elder... (not that your old) but respect for your wisdom and know that you will do the right thing...

I will leave you with this one thought. If this happens in my church, in my time, how do I know that God may not want me to stay and openly object to it or atleast until I am run out?

God has always given men over to a reprobate mind, or things they want to do.... The majority rules, and God will just let them have it their way, sending a strong delusion that they may believe a lie....

For you to stand and fight against what people want, despite what the word does say is a loosing battle....

However the scripture also says this....

Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

While you might not be able to pull the whole denomination out of the drink.... God would use you when the time is right in a powerful way, making the difference to many....

When is the time??

God said ask, and he will give wisdom... trust in that... at the right time, and right events, you will know what to do as if a Neon sign was giving you direction.. No doubt, or worry, God is faithful....

That is exactly what will happen...... and many will be blessed, being pulled out of the fire....

God bless you!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

Originally Posted by RJ

The Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and the list continues to grow, not counting the "Other" immoral congregations out there.

I agree this is a sad time for the church Universal. I was deeply concerned when the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church recently changed their stance on homosexuality and even changed the wording in their Book Of Order and remove that the definition of a marriage is a union between a man and a woman; how secularism continues to creep into our midst.

I don't agree with the immoral congregation statement though, that's for God to decide; every church is full of sinners for all sorts of reasons. As it stands now our Presbyterian Church has the right to not allow gay marriages or Pastors but this is probably a matter of time before something changes that too, like a law suit!
When it does or if it does that , I am gone and probably will go to a non-denominational church. For right now , mine still preaches the Bible and Jesus Christ.

some will keep preaching the truth even unto their death. i lhope that yours is one of them.

Originally Posted by Brother Mike

Thank you RJ...


While this may seem a harsh statement, and it is.... I think any assosiation with any denomination that has to feel they even have a need to pass a gay vote, or anything else that we know and fully understand to be wrong.... needs to be forsaken...

Sitting in a congregation where they teach there is no more healing, and the gifts are long gone... is lots different than saying it's Good in God's eyes to be homosexual... like apples and Oranges.. Living your life crucified before the Lord, and being an example and light is the important thing... When that gets violated, then time to go..

By supporting in presence, money and any connection would be in agreement where that denomination is Going, even it you meant to do so or not...

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Jesus Is Lord.

i love this hard truth. can i use this comment in a bulk email? you are right on target.

Originally Posted by RJ

Sitting in a congregation where they teach there is no more healing, and the gifts are long gone..
I see your point and can appreciate it but you have no knowledge how my congregation is reacting to this problem much less have the knowledge to make the above statement.
The Lord and I will deal with it as I feel instructed to do for the time being. As far as pulling my money out, what happens to my share that goes to worthy causes like local food pantries and soup kitchens, 2 wrongs don't make a right!

Besides, if the truth be known, these food pantries and soup kitchens could very likely be used by homosexuals and other sinners and probably are as far as I know. So, let's say that this is true, do I go ahead and pull my support for that now?

So , according to your statement: Living your life crucified before the Lord, and being an example and light is the important thing... When that gets violated, then time to go.. So with the pantries and kitchens, I should leave for that alone, what is the difference?
Also, are you saying, just based on what I have said, that I am not an example of or giving off the light of Christ.
No offense but I think your view of what is being an example or light is distorted and not biblical. I don't know if you are a Calvinist or not but, if you are, is that a part of Calvinism?

If you haven't looked lately, we live under the Covenant of Grace and Love....I think I will take God's advice on this matter!

i do nt o think that anyone is saying to stop reaching out to the sinners. that is completely against the bible and the lord. however condoning such behaviors is a whole nother story. we can not condone these things and claim that the lord is moving through us in doing so. however you can tythe into what ever ministry you want to it does not have to be directly tlhrough your church.

Originally Posted by RJ

It is difficult times and yes, since I am presently a member of a Presbyterian Church, I am ultimately a part of "one of those denominations that you mentioned but I am a Christian first and a Presbyterian second, maybe that is even third, LOL!

Between you and I and our discussions on the matter, ironically, I abhor what the Presbyterian Church USA has done. In fact, being married in a church or being a Pastor in a church and a practicing homosexual is a oxy-moron. I can't for the life of me believe that you can be a Christian, the Lord in you and guiding your paths on one hand and, you openly are a non-repentent homosexual on the other and I hate the thought!

I have been more than out-spoken on this issue in my own church and, for the time being, we would not support gay marriages or Pastors but, the die is cast and, I imagine it will only be time before we have to. I will probably leave for sure then if not before but not until then I will continue to struggle with what I hate and God's calling to a higher purpose in love.

I will leave you with this one thought. If this happens in my church, in my time, how do I know that God may not want me to stay and openly object to it or atleast until I am run out?

god may ask you to stay and speak out the truth. they will surely run you out for it. but it is not of matter what they do or think. it only matters that you are doing as you are lead by the spirit of god.

Originally Posted by ushalk

first of all this is a doctrine from the baptist. i have talked with many pastors and teachers of the baptist churches and this is infact one of their teachings. i did my home workd on this and do not appreciate being told i am liing. i will even tell you a good place to start researching this. that is Thomas road baptist church and liberty university in lynchburg VA.

Perhaps we should look at Westboro Baptist Church as well while we're just throwing out random church names. Maybe you would like to claim all Baptist churches teach we should picket military funerals. What I'm saying is that your logic does not make sense. Primarily because Baptist churches are all independent.

However, there is a common theme depending on who you are affiliated with. For instance, my Baptist church is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). There is the Baptist Faith & Message, the Baptist Covenant, etc. These are all documents written by the Baptist Church. While they are not decrees of what one must believe to be Baptist, they are a general collection of beliefs. In fact, pretty much every denomination has something like this. For instance, the Presbyterian church has the Westminster Confession of Faith. Regardless, you will not find anything like what you are claiming within these statements of faith within the Baptist church. Because of this, you no longer have a leg to stand on. You only have what various random churches teach on the subject and, since they are all independent, it does not hold much water.

Originally Posted by Brother Mike

A real live breathing "genuine" Calvinist...

Blessings rojoloco!!!! Not seen you post in awhile....

Anyways, God bless you and your family, and Jesus Is Lord..


Mike.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I actually laughed when I read the first line. It's been a while since I posted. I've been trying to revive The Jesus Joint so most of my energy has been exerted there. I have been meaning to post more on here.

I could go over to the Jesus Joint and post some anti election stuff, and some name it and claim stuff......

Should get someones attention.... Lol..

But the Jesus Joint be blessed, and hold to the integrity of the Word of God that we live our life as examples, and those that need direction, the Lord bring them, as he added to the Church daily that which might be saved...

Blessed be the Baptist, that hold fast to their doctrine and integrity while the other major denominations vote for gay marriage and clergy..

Jesus Is Lord.

i think a big part of the problem in american churches is we have become comfortable with false teachings. many have come to the point of condoning them rather than confronting them. a lot of this is due to the whole teaching that we are not supposed to cause ripples or waves. especially when it comes to wuthority figures in the church. however it think that this is dangerous for true growth of any christian. false teachings are to often held in high esteem and just taken by the word of man. this is not going to work. we are not safe for keeping ourselves ignorant to god. he has given us what we need to know and study.

Originally Posted by ushalk

i think a big part of the problem in american churches is we have become comfortable with false teachings. many have come to the point of condoning them rather than confronting them. a lot of this is due to the whole teaching that we are not supposed to cause ripples or waves. especially when it comes to wuthority figures in the church. however it think that this is dangerous for true growth of any christian. false teachings are to often held in high esteem and just taken by the word of man. this is not going to work. we are not safe for keeping ourselves ignorant to god. he has given us what we need to know and study.

Good point, and more importantly we need to be led and taught by HolySpirit. I think another fleshy motivation is numbers.

I don't miss all the business of the micro-kingdoms in the christian religious institution.