Originally Posted by Johan

I believe that Hell is 'total absence from God'. That has got to burn a lot. A lot more than fire. But somehow it seems more reasonable. But I don't know, God is just, I trust his judgement even if Hell is an actual eternal fire.

So I guess you don't believe that God is omnipresent.

Originally Posted by jiggyfly

So I guess you don't believe that God is omnipresent.

I do.

What I meant is that even if he's present everywhere, we can't feel his presence all the time. Hell is (I believe) total absence from that feeling; no light, no love, only the feeling that you missed out an eternal life in the paradise, with Jesus.


But another possible alternative (still speculations), which would be total absence from God, is 'eternal death'.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

So, if you don't believe in him, you will perish. It doesn't say:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not have everlasting life in Hell, but have everlasting life in Heaven."

In fact, it sounds strange to me that you'd have everlasting life in any case, because why would He then say "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life"?

And also, Matthew 3:12:

"Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Why would he burn up the chaff? To get rid of it. If you harvest fruit, you get rid of the bad fruit and keep the good fruit.


I have no idea about Hell, but these are my thoughts. Anyway, I don't believe that God would give them new undestroyable bodies just so they could be tortured with physical pain in an actual (eternal) lake of fire.

As I said before, if that is what God will do, then I won't question it.

Originally Posted by Davy

Personally, I am beginning to believe the teaching of "Eternal torment" is a God "dishonouring" doctrine, I cannot believe, a loving God would do somethink like that!

Davy,

We believe that love is the very nature of God. Every thing he does arises from that love. He created man out of a desire to share that love and He wanted that love to be shared by man, both with Him and with each other. For this to happen, man had to be given free will. With free will, man gets the power of choice and the consequences or blessings that flow from it.

We believe that the essentials of salvation are set forth in the New Testament - that God himself made salvation available to all through the ministry of His Son Jesus. John 3:16 says "whoever believes in Him (Jesus) shall not perish, but will have eternal life." The Kingdom of God is defined as being wherever God rules. The opposing domain is the devil's kingdom - wherever evil rules; wherever people intentionally turn away from God.

Those who hear the gospel message, understand it, and choose to reject it, are refusing God's Kingdom and its blessings, which automatically separates them from God and puts them under the control of the devil and his allies, whether they realize it or not. If they have not repented of that decision by the time of their death, their doom is sealed. They will suffer eternal separation from God and all His blessings, they will suffer for eternity in Hell.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Originally Posted by SpiritLedEd

those who hear the gospel message, understand it, and choose to reject it, are refusing God's Kingdom and its blessings, which automatically separates them from God and puts them under the control of the devil and his allies

what of those who do not understand? are they not punished likewise?

Originally Posted by cman77

what of those who do not understand? are they not punished likewise?

No one who comes to full maturity mentally has the excuse of having absolutely no understanding of God's law, for it is written on everyone's heart (conscience).

"Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares." (Ro 2:14-16 NIV)

SLE

Originally Posted by SpiritLedEd

No one who comes to full maturity mentally has the excuse of having absolutely no understanding of God's law, for it is written on everyone's heart (conscience).

excuse me but we are not speaking of God's Law. we are speaking of the gospel message.