I have a question for all. If Jesus, when teaching us to pray, told us to ask God to lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil, and said that He would set us free indeed, that with every temptation, He will make a way of escape for us and Paul said that sin shall NOT have dominion over us and that Christ would always cause us to triumph in Christ Jesus, why do we still find ourselves failing and falling into sin?

In my mind, this question is THE question we need to be pondering right now at the close of this age. All rides on how we answer this. Can Jesus set His people free indeed from their sins and their old nature? All I ask is that you do not just share opinions but back them up with scriptures.

Thanks so much and I look forward to seeing your thoughts.

Romans 3:22-24


..The righteousness from through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified freely by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. (NRSV)

Even the apostles, who walked daily with Christ, fell into temptation and doubt. (They did not even, at first, believe that He had Risen!) But Christ told them:

Matthew 26:40-42

"..Stay awake and pray so that you may not come into the time of trial. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (NRSV)

We must pray, without ceasing - when faith is weak, we can pray for that, for faith is itself a gift of God. (1Corinthians 12:9). And we must remember, our flesh is weak - it is in the Risen Christ that we have our strength.

Blessings

Greetings Bruce,

interesting idea you place with this question you find serious.....

the close of this age. Is this a recent age or the end of an old one, you are referring to?

You say, "All rides on how we answer this."

Is that so? Just wondering how you came up with these ideas?

Thought I would ask before taking on your question. I noticed you are new here, and have posted quite a few posts already today, and I am wondering if your question here is asking for your benefit or are you leading to something?

Bless you ....><>



Br. Bear

HE has already SET us free in the eternal and shows us HOW to be true overcomers in the flesh.
Once born of GOD, We are New Spirit beings,that have HIS nature and MIND, Just as HE had at His fleshly Birth and We are babies in our Spirit!
Then WE wants us living and walking in our new creature !
he HAS DECLARED US ALREADY , MORE THAN CONQUERORS
That is though our Spirit!
Our Spirit will never sin or do any evil what soever
But our flesh mind will ,if we allow it!
WE being the spirit with in!
the problem as I see it , is?
Our spirit is subject to our flesh mind.
That is why , He tells us to take on the mind of Christ outwardly!
We need to study the Bible , Ask the HOLY GHOST to open our understanding .
And fill our mind with His living word!
Also , When we get evil thoughts or desires ?We just say? satan get out and take your dumb thoughts with you in the name of Jesus Christ!
our flesh has a different nature than our Spirit!
Our flesh wants to sin and satan knows it and uses our natural desires to try and trick us!
Still we will be tempted in the flesh!
But the more we over come , the easier it gets!
The true church is not taught there beginning nor there place in the kingdom of GOD.
WE are KINGS and PRIESTS of GOD , there are no higher people on earth ,than us!
But we are stuck a short time in these bodies!

He left us or i should say ,gave us a part of HIMSELF[Holy Ghost] and the means to use this Power, The name JESUS CHRIST!
Then though faith , which only works by LOVE!we can use it For HIS GLORY and HONOR!


Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Act 3:4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
Act 3:5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
Act 3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.


Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
WE must judge ourselves and others ,by What GOD says about us!


not this weak dying flesh ,that plays no part in eternal life!

JESUS Christ came as a baby ,so HE could be the perfect example for Each of us to follow!
He was led and taught by the HOLY GHOST all His life here!We are to ask the Holy Ghost lots , about scriptures and anything else in life we need to know!He is our Teacher and helper in everything we want or need in life!
HE will not fail us ever!

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
WE walk in our own Spirit And it will Always follow His

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Our being is a heavenly being!


Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

this scripture is telling us ?our flesh mind has the spirits mind in subjection at least to some degree
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

You have the spirit of prophecy already!
A priest of God is higher than a prophet as is HIS child


Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Our natural place once Born into His family and household is Very High

GOD has a perfect will and permissive will !
I tell MY LORD ? I never want to be in HIS permissive will again and try very hard not to be!
I find it HIS perfect will HE wants us in and where we get the best always!
divorce is permissive Not divorcing is His perfect will!
We live under grace so HE allows lots!Still we do not want to do anything ,that is not perfect as we can do in HIS EYES!

When we pray? We should first worship HIm ,then pray for others we know have needs , then say what we want .then Tell Him only if it can be in HIS perfect will.then thank HIm as if we already recieved!Then worship Him!
This is the way I see it!


lovingly in our LORD JESUS CHRIST !gary

Originally Posted by Mustard_Seed

Romans 3:22-24


..The righteousness from through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified freely by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. (NRSV)

Even the apostles, who walked daily with Christ, fell into temptation and doubt. (They did not even, at first, believe that He had Risen!) But Christ told them:

Matthew 26:40-42

"..Stay awake and pray so that you may not come into the time of trial. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (NRSV)

We must pray, without ceasing - when faith is weak, we can pray for that, for faith is itself a gift of God. (1Corinthians 12:9). And we must remember, our flesh is weak - it is in the Risen Christ that we have our strength.

Blessings

I must respectfully disagree and here is why. The apostles did this before they were filled with the spirit, not after. Even if you were correct and they had fallen in sin, the truth of God's word stands all by itself. If Paul; or Peter fell, do we then throw out the promises of God? Do we have to deny the Lord three times because Peter did? No.God has promised us liberty but...it must be believed first, for it is always according to our faith be it unto us.

Our problem is that we are duplicating the errors of the Jews and stumbling on the stumbling stone...the law. This is our fly in the ointment, te cause for God's church to be so weak and ineffective. Sin still has His children! You see, the law sets no one free and causes bondage and death, not liberty. How can we mistake what God is saying? Satan has succeed in hiding it from our eyes and hearts, but no more.

Look in Ezekiel 36 where God promised the new covenant and what it would do that the old one could not. God says:

"and I will CAUSE them to walk in my statutes".

In vs. 37, He finishes His discourse and says:

"I shall yet be inquired of by the house of Israel to DO IT FOR THEM.


THAT is the new covenant and it is something to get excited about! The gospel is far better news than we have ever seen or believed, but here, at the end of the age, God is revealing thru His spirit the true power of the gospel to all, thank God.

If you would re-read the scriptures I quoted earlier. There are none that show we are going to walk defeated, sin filled lives. I can list at least 20 additional references if you like as to liberty and freedom from the flesh and sin being the heritage of the saints. The church is fixing to find life again. Praise God.

If what you say is true, and I will admit, it is what most believe, then we will be found in condemnation, for if victory comes from praying without ceasing, and hard diligence and self control, then shame is upon our heads for not doing all we could to extricate ourselves from the grip of sin, the sin that put Jesus on the cross. If it is by the law, then we best get busy and do it. Look at the list of fruits that are to be produced in abundance by walking in the Spirit, abiding in the vine.l Look at the LAST ONE. Self-control. Do you see? What was necessary to walk the law, is now a gift in the new covneant. The yoke of bondage has been broken and we have a gentle master and an easy yoke, as we simply cooperate with God. Thank God, now it is by faith, so we humble ourselves, confess our pride in thinking we could achieve holiness by the outer cleaning of our cup when inside, the flesh is still alive, still wicked and still deceiving us. We, God's bride, have been like the pharisee, pretty on the outside but inside full of dead mens bones! No longer. For now, all can simply ask our loving Father for faith, faith to BELIEVE His exceeding great and precious promises. Why? That we might be partakers of the divine nature! Halleleujah! This, brother, is the way to having our nature changed, abiding by Him in faith. It works!


Romans 7 is often mistakenly referred to as Pauls testimony, but it was not. Romans 7, the "O, wretched man that I am" chapter, is a man laboring under the law to achieve holiness. Romans 7:1 tells us who he is referring to, "for I speak to them that know the law." Romans 8, there is Paul's testimony and can be ours as well. Listen to
Romans 8:9:

"But you are not in the flesh but in the spirit if so be that the spirit of God dwells in you."


Thank about it? What good is armor if satan has armor piecing bullets? What good is praying "lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil" if it is impossible and cannot happen? Jesus said we must believe when we pray that we receive it, and then taught us what to pray, yet we have doubted still. But God has been longsuffering with us. He is a good God and longsuffering with us.

We, God's church, are the virgins where all slept. The cry will soon be heard "The bridegroom cometh!". Let us be those wise virgins who filled their lamps with oil and no longer walk about in our flesh trying to be saints. It has made us miserable, sleepy and content with "having a form of goliness while denying the power of it." God forgive us.

Can God not keep us safe as He has promised? Can He truly free us from violating our consciounses again and again, to the point we do not believe God can really do anything except forgive us of our sins? To be honest, I would have been arguing with you 8 months ago, but when I finally got angry at my continued failure and let the law judge me as guilty. I finally fully saw that unbelief gripped my heart and was the real cause of my wilfull sins (and what sins truthfully are not?).
I repented and cast away my doubt in God's ability to cause me to will and to do of His good pleasure, and in all truthfullness, my walk has not been the same since. Victory is real, joy in the Lord is real, His presence is THERE, all the time.


Jesus said, blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. This is the one that stabbed me. I knew that even after serving God for over three decades, my heart was impure. I could no longer go for the "imputed holiness" idea. I needed clean thoughts, pure motives and even though my honesty caused me great pain, that is the nature of true repentance. Holiness is real and for us and we CAN walk with pure minds and hearts. We can love the way Christ asked. We can be in the world and not of the world. But it is only thru Christ and abiding in Him, letting Him walk the walk through us as we yield fully to His wonderful will, that vicotry is granted.


You quoted this scripture as proof we must sin:

Matthew 26:40-42

"..Stay awake and pray so that you may not come into the time of trial. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."


As I said, this verse was given to his disciples before pentecost when the Holy Spirit filled and empowered them. The word tells us clearly:

Therefore brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof."


We do not owe the flesh ANYTHING! No more. Like as Chirst was raised to newness of life, we are to believe that we are as well and Paul instructs us HOW to get there.


"Reckon yourself dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God."


This verse right here is our part in walking victoriously. It is the heart of the new covenant of faith. The word reckon means to consider it in YOUR bank account. Praise God! When the disciples came to Jesus and asked Him what they must do to work theworks of God, he did not give them a list of do's and don'ts and exhortations to subdue our flesh. He simply said:

"Believe on Him whom He has sent."

How do we please God? Believe, "for without faith, it is impossible to please Him.". And what does He ask, no, command us to believe? He asks us to finally, after all our failings and falling short of the glory of God, in our brokenness and humility, to believe that we are dead, that our flesh has been dealt a death blow, and that we walk in newness of life in the new man, who is created in righteousness and true holiness. We are to believe that sin shall NOT have dominion over us. We are to believe that we can do ALL things thru Christ that strengthensd us. We are to believe that God, in His love, WILL cause us to wil and to do of Hos good pleasure.


It is time we as His body see how satan, long ago, has infiltrated and twisted the gospel to where the weight of our success in achieving holiness is back on our shoulders, rather than the shoulders of Jesus Himself. May God open eyes to see how good the gospel really is.

Originally Posted by Br. Bear

Greetings Bruce,

interesting idea you place with this question you find serious.....

the close of this age. Is this a recent age or the end of an old one, you are referring to?

You say, "All rides on how we answer this."

Is that so? Just wondering how you came up with these ideas?

Thought I would ask before taking on your question. I noticed you are new here, and have posted quite a few posts already today, and I am wondering if your question here is asking for your benefit or are you leading to something?

Bless you ....><>



Br. Bear

Dear Br. bear, if you would be so kind as to read my answer previous to this, I think many of your questions may be answered. It is a bit of reading but I feel it may bless you. I hope so anyway.

As for how I came to this view, it was out of sheer necessity. Unlike many who have rather pleasant fleshes, what the word calls "making a fair show in the flesh", mine was wicked and unruly and as hard as I would try to be changed into a holy man, with a pure heart, at the end of 37 years, I had to admit it had not worked. I was a hard man, serving a hard God, a God who reaped where He had not sown, and was tired, broken and worn out.

I read Romans 6:11, now my favorite scripture, 8-9 months ago, and scales fell from my eyes. The scriptures that I knew backwards and forward now were like neon signs everywhere, telling of the way of faith alone. Yes, we have to yield all to obey His word. Yes we have to cast off our life to get His, but you know, Br. Bear, it is easy when you finally dislike your old flesh to such an extent that if you have to lose your whole life to lose your flesh, you gladly do it and it is a bargain indeed.

The last 8 months have been amazing. Addictive sins that I battled for over 30 years fell off me like chains melting in fire, and hardness and anger, my "watchword" if you will, disappeared as well, revealing a new Bruce, one who is kind and patient and loving.

Does it mean I have "arrived" and am now perfect? LOL, NO! It means I have finally been officially enrolled in discipleship class and can actually learn without the class bully terrorizing me.

Am I perfect for an 8 month old in the spirit however? You bet I am. Of course our character change is a process, as we spend time with God in prayer and allow Him to, thru the spirit, change us into His image from glory to glory. As we believe His exceeding great and precious promises, we become partakers of the divine nature. It is tuly a miracle, because sin, rebellion, wanting to do MY will rather than His, is GONE.

Can I sin? Yes, if I stop believing. But why would I? And the neat thing is the further one goes in this walk, the further we are from the wilderness we left as we explore the Promised Land and every step we take becomes OURS! Thank you God.

The most wonderful thing is this. It is for ALL, not just those with superhuman willpower, a razor sharp mind memorizing and understanding scripture or a degree in theology. It is for the weak, for the cast offs, for those who never seemed to "get it together". As a matter of fact, in my experience so far, is that it is the legalists, the self controlled, who have the hardest time with this truth, but God has said that he would hide it from the wise and the prudent and reveal it unot babes. What an amazing God we serve!

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. I ramble at times, LOL.

Originally Posted by spirit1st

GOD has a perfect will and permissive will !
I tell MY LORD ? I never want to be in HIS permissive will again and try very hard not to be!
I find it HIS perfect will HE wants us in and where we get the best always!
divorce is permissive Not divorcing is His perfect will!
We live under grace so HE allows lots!Still we do not want to do anything ,that is not perfect as we can do in HIS EYES!

When we pray? We should first worship HIm ,then pray for others we know have needs , then say what we want .then Tell Him only if it can be in HIS perfect will.then thank HIm as if we already recieved!Then worship Him!
This is the way I see it!


lovingly in our LORD JESUS CHRIST !gary

My dear Spirit, how I relate to you! I too was trying very hard not to get out of Gods perfect will at any time. I wanted to PLEASE Him but never could, until I believed His promises. Listen, it is not to him that willeth, or to him that runneth, but it is God's mercy that causes us to obey. It is God IN us, which is our hope of glory. Unless God builds the house, they labor in vain which try to build it. Jesus said:

"Without me, you can do NOTHING"

Yet Paul proclaimed:

"I can do ALL THINGS thru Christ who strengthens me."

Do this. Simply take the promise of "You are not in the flesh, but in the spirit" and confess it to your loving Father. Ask Him what HE means, not what our minds tell us, or what we have been taught, or what our church thinks. None of that matters on the last day. It will just be us and God. Let us believe Him no matter who says otherwise. The blessings of the Lord is hidden in the secret of obedience by faith, not by self effort. It is not hard. It is an easy yoke he asks us to wear with Him.

Do we as normal Christians willfully sin? Of course we do, for when you really look at it, all our sins are willful ones. Why? Because God, with every temptation, promises to make a way of escape that we might not fall, right? So if we still fall, we have willfully disobeyed and simply chosen to ask forgivenenss later so we can sin now. What does the Bible say about this? It is not a "fun read", for God says that:

"if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful looking for of judgement."

Ouch.

The key is...where is one's heart? What does it say? If sin still haunts us, what are we doing about it? Are we like the man in the temple beating our breasts saying "God be merciful to me a sinner?" It is the only other safe place I know besides abiding in Christ.

Unfortunately, you know as well as I do that we Christians have made our mantra "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven", and yet we do not realize how much unbelief is in that statement. Yet, God loves us still, and knows we have been mislead up til now. But I can promise you this....in these last days, you will hear this glorious teaching of the fullness of Christ and His promises from a multitude of believers. I am just one of many who are finding out the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Here is my advice. Do not ask your head.

Ask your heart. Do you long for true victory? Do you long to be free of addictive sins, worldliness, lust, pride, anger, judgmentalism, but simply do not know how? God is holding out a gift for you and for all who long to be "free indeed". Do not take my word for it. I am but a man.

Ask God. Search out the word itself. He has a surprise for all who will do it with pure motives and no agenda but to walk in the fullness of the will of the Father, and what a wonderful father we serve.

Quick note Bruce: when you quote Scripture, ALWAYS give the reference. Although, you may be sure of what you're saying, give the reference, so you might not be seen as someone making things up.

Originally Posted by Agapē

Quick note Bruce: when you quote Scripture, ALWAYS give the reference. Although, you may be sure of what you're saying, give the reference, so you might not be seen as someone making things up.

Thank you Agape, I wil try to do better. I like your verse at the end of your posts!