dear all,

recently I have a non-believer friend who is asking about the battle involving satan before the creation of the earth.

anyone does know with (preferably) bible references, about this topic? Please do share with me so i can let my friend know, and hopefully & prayerfully, he will one day accept Christ.

Hi brother and welcome to 'talkjesus'

Paul the Apostle and bible teacher when writing to the young Pastor Timothy, said this. "O Timothy guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge"

What Paul is saying in todays language is "avoid fruitless discussion" (kenophonia) is the Greek word. Discussion on obscure topics is not edifying to the inner man.

In the same chapter Paul exhorts Timothy to "fight the good fight of faith, Lay hold on eternal life.....this is far more real, tangible and exciting

Hi brother Stephen,

First and foremost, let me thank you for your prompt reply.

I understand where u are coming from, but why I would like to pose this question is because I feel the situation calls for the answer to be laid out clearly (to my friend), such that with the doubt(s) cleared, my friend (and I) will have a better understanding- it will be less of an obstacle to continue spreading the gospel to him. (understanding that the conversation is not smooth-sailing as always, when one tries to put forth the gospel to a non-believer)

I hope I clarify myself well enough (I think i am getting people confused reading the above..). And I am would like to ask for bible reference as far as possible to support what anyone is going to say/comment on this topic.

I hope I do not raise problems by discussing this topic here.

There are a couple of references that I am aware of that I can share with you, however, the fight probably wasn't before the creation of the earth, because on the sixth day of creation, God said that Everything was Very Good. How could everything be good if there was sin through Satan?
Isaiah 14: 12-15
12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
15 But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.

(Many people think that this is what was said, the "I will's" that spoke rebellion and sin into existence. His statements of pride led to his fall.)

Ezekiel 28: 12-19
12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"

(This is God speaking through Ezekiel vs. 11. Most scholars think that the king of Tyre is symbolism for Satan because the king obviously was not in the garden of Eden. Because Satan is the ruler of this world, he wants to be where the power is, and at that time in history, Tyre was powerful. Of course, later in Ezekiel, God judged the city and said it would be no more, and now it does not exist. So in order for Satan to be a 'cherub in Eden', it is my opinion that the fall happened after Creation.)

I hope these help. I also like to know the answer to questions like these. I love to research. I don't think that it takes the focus off of Jesus. He knows our curiousness, our doubts, and thankfully He doesn't leave us in the dark about everything.

1 Peter 3: 15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

I think we must be prepared, must be 'up to date' with our Bible reading and understanding in order to answer questions. I work at a church, and I love it when people call me, saying that someone asked them a question that they didn't have an answer for but hoped that someone could help. These are valid issues. Don't be afraid to search for answers because your searching for answers led you to Jesus and it could do the same for your friend. Jesus and our faith holds up under scrutiny.

Thank you sister ephesians4_23, that was very insightful, and very scripture-based.

To your later statements, I say 'amen'. And I hope that God will continue to draw you closer to Him in your ministry, quenching your curiosities according to His will.

Peace be with you sister!

Subitobi:

If I were you, I wouldn't try to do this alone. Get your friend before a more experienced Christian who knows the art of witnessing, who knows the Scriptures better than you do, and can segue away from lesser issues (like the one your friend is asking about) and draw him toward Jesus.

SLE

SpiritLedEd:

While I cant do that if that friend of mine refuse to step into a service in church. Anyway, I do appreciate your advice.

Anyway, why did I suggest that the battle took place before earth was created:

Genesis
1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
1:2 Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water.

According to my pastor from a previous sermon, I recall that he used the verses above to indicate the battle. '..the earth was without shape and empty' The 'was' used here can also be translated as 'became' from the original scripture. And this became, from a bible interpretation's viewpoint, could be/ is most probably a result from the battle.

Dear Subitobi

It is lovely to know that your unsaved friend is showing an interest in the things of God.

Your friend is seeking to find out things about the Lord ...but he is getting stuck in intellectualising which could lead you into needless and difficult debate with him.

Could you suggest that he just prays and asks the Lord to show him the answers? You would have simple scriptures to back this up

Canst thou by searching find out God? Job 11:7

Search the scriptures ..they are they which testify Me John 5:39

Ye shall seek Me and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart Jeremiah 29:13

He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him Heb 11:6

I will pray for your friend will find the Lord with simple childlike faith. I will also pray that the Lord directs and guides you according to His will in your discussions with your friend.

God bless you brother

Julia

Thank you dear jskm, that was most warm and encouraging. God is truly gracious to me. =)

Welcome to TJ. i do not quite understand the question sorry well maybe god may bless you in this question.