You may not have specifically said that sin is good, but the truth is, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." Mat. 12:34. If your heart is filled with righteousness, as you suggest, then why have expressed nothing but contempt toward me?

Where did i say my heart was filled with rightiousness? Please provide the quote. If you cannot provide it then please apologise for once again bearing false witness against me.

I express nothing but contempt for the doctrine that you are preaching here. I attack the thought. Not you.

If you don't agree with me, why can't you simply say that and go your way? Besides, all I did to start this thread was ask a question? If you don't want to answer it, then why are you even posting here?

Because i am thinking of the babes in Jesus new to the faith who come in here to find out more and grow in faith. I will not just go away and let them be taught false doctrine with no resistance. How many people who are new to faith will read your words and knowing that they still sin have their hope destroyed? I will resist the sinlessness in the flesh doctrine for as long as i live.

To everyone reading:

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Originally Posted by Timothy M.B.

jjkirk,



I agree. But what makes one a member of the body of Christ?

[size=1]For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: .............. Romans 12:4-18(ESV)


[size=1]This is only a brief picture of what makes one a member of the body of Christ. For the knowledge and wisdom of God runs deep so deep it is incomprehensible to mankind. We can only take morsels and when we put them together we begin to see the whole.

[size=1]To be brief: What makes one a member of the Body of Christ is his blood, shed for us and we confess with our mouth(not lip service) and believe in our heart He is risen and he is the Messiah sent by the Father, and live accordingly and love as he loved, then we begin to understand what it is to be a member of the body of Christ.... To be One with Christ.



[size=1]Peace be with you,
[size=1]John.

Timothy... your comments...

"You have not offended me. I too could suggest that you are misinterpreting Scripture but that isn't necessary. I know exactly where you are coming from. Your accusations of my abuse of Scripture and your flattery of Freedomwhatelse's testimony are based on your presupposition that there is a difference between intentional sin and accidental sin. This is similar to the Catholic idea of mortal and venial sin. So tell me, what is the Scriptural definition of sin and where does Scripture distinguish between intentional and accidental sin? With all due respect, I have nothing else to share with you about me because you will simply critique everything else I say until this issue is resolved. As I just said to Adstar, this thread started with a question. If you dont' want to answer it, then why are you even posting here?"

You're right, I was responding to your response to Adstar's question. So to actually answer your question ... I don't believe in right doctrines. I believe in Biblical truth as specifically stated in the Bible. Doctrines are derived from the Bible and other places and as such are subject to error.... opinions are projections are projections of personal presuppositions upon the Bible. Yes there are those who put doctrine above the Bible.

However in your response to Adstar you brought up a doctrinal issue ... the problem of eternal security... whether you admit it or not. You brought forth portions of scripture from 1John and Hebrews without doing the appropriate word studies or understanding the meaning in context of the entire passage. That led you to a misunderstanding and a misapplication of the subject of the christian and sin. My clarification on those passages was so that others on the forum... particularly newer christians would not be discouraged by your your inaccurate interpretations.

As to the Catholic concept of two types of sin... I hope you are not putting words in my mouth that I did not say. Actually, you were the one who brought up the difference between sins committed without knowning and sins that are overt acts. You indicated that sins committed without knowing can be forgiven and those that overt acts (even in weakness) cannot. Actually, I don't make that distinction.

You also said..

"I haven't said that I have not sinned. What I am saying is that the gospel that I have received has given me victory over sin. I no longer do what I will, but what my Father wills. The only reason a person can not say this is because they have received a counterfeit gospel. One that is contingent on believing the right things. With that said, do you still wish you could stop sinning?"

Actually, this is your doctrinal statement. And in it you also state that those who have a different view are in error because they follow a "counterfeit gospel". That's fine if you want to take that position... just be honest and recognise that it is your doctrinal statement.

Also recognise that there are others on the forum that have a different opinion and they are faithful followers of Christ. And for you to accuse them of following a "counterfeit gospel" because they believe differently than you is just not right. That in itself is a non loving act that I would categorize as sin. It almost sound as if you are saying that once you have been saved by faith, staying saved is by works. That sounds more like the pharisees than those you are accusing.

Adstar,

Where did i say my heart was filled with rightiousness? Please provide the quote.

You did say, "It is His righteousness that covers us, not our own." I simply used the words heart filled with righteousness as a paraphrase. If your testimony is that you sin, then your heart is not filled with righteousness, and neither are you covered by it.

I express nothing but contempt for the doctrine that you are preaching here. I attack the thought. Not you.

Where in Scripture does it say that contempt is one of the fruits of the Spirit? As I've said before, the fact that I obey my Father is not a doctrine, it is my testimony. By attacking my testimony, you are attacking me. I have no contempt toward you because your testimony or your beliefs are no threat to me. All I did was ask the question, what have your beliefs done for you?

How many people who are new to faith will read your words and knowing that they still sin have their hope destroyed?

How many people who are new to the faith will read my words and know that they too can receive the gospel I've received and live a life that is in obedience with the Father?

To everyone reading:

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

To everyone reading:

Let's take a look at this verse in its context since Adstar quotes it with almost every reply to defend his or her sin.

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:3-10.

It is very clear that John is addressing this letter to people who do not "have fellowship with us." Then he goes on to talk about the benefits of having "fellowship one with another" and being cleansed from all sin. Then he addresses the possibility of someone believing they don't have any sin to be cleansed; that they are a liar and the truth is not in them. Nowhere in this passage does it even suggest that those who do "have fellowship with us" continue in sin. On the contrary, John goes on to say in this same letter, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9.

Now, some have suggested that what John really means in that verse is that whosoever is born of God doesn't sin on purpose, only by accident. To those I would ask, what is the Biblical definition of sin and where in Scripture does it distinguish between intentional and accidental sin?


jjkirk,

For the knowledge and wisdom of God runs deep so deep it is incomprehensible to mankind.

It's not incomprehensible to me, for it is written:

But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 1 John 2:20.

then we begin to understand what it is to be a member of the body of Christ.... To be One with Christ.

I agree. But what is the standard that distinguishes between those who are truly one with Christ and those who only claim, or believe, or have an idea of what being one with Christ is?

The definition of sin (Gk - harmatia) is literally "missing the mark." It can be any thought or action or inaction that mars us from being perfect, complete or fully mature as Jesus Christ was. He was the only human being that could truthfully say that he fully did the will of the Father and that He was totally without sin.

We all can identify with Paul and say that we are sinners saved by grace and faith in Jesus name and not by any good works. If we try to justify ourselves by our goodness we are in danger of nullifying the precious and amazing grace of God!!!

We are not saved by perfect theology or correct doctrines but by complete faith in the saving power of Jesus Christ. Amen

love
evangeline

OK... Timothy.... I give up... I think you are wrong in your reading of 1John and I have told you why. You believe what you want (your doctrines). Just spare us your attemps to convince us that your doctrine is the right one and the rest of us follow a false gospel.

Your method of interpretation is a example of what you say you are arguing against. You have defined your doctrine about the christian and sin and color your reading of the scriptures by that doctrine. I think this thread has gone as far as it can reasonable go.

Originally Posted by Adstar

Yes pappa you now get the doctrine Timothy is teaching.



Once again.


1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Do the administrators of this site support Timothy’s doctrine?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I certainly disagree with Timothy. You are contradicting yourself brother. I suggest you ask GOD for wisdom and stop fooling yourself with that "perceiving ways" because if anything. you are the one with "pride" so don't worry about others, fix yourself first with the help of Christ.

Originally Posted by Timothy M.B.

What is salvation? What is sin?

You are truly lost my friend. You are fooling yourself ruthlessly and just not aligned with GOD with this "doctrine" or "view" per se. I really think you should put away YOUR pride and ask GOD for forgiveness and guideance or else you will dig your own grave because of such a human view of yours instead of what GOD says is Truth in the Holy Bible. I will pray that GOD will guide you as I always ask GOD to guide me too. I am not perfect, I sin every day and not happy but am 100% grateful for GOD's grace and --- GIFT --- of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Timothy, your attitude towards everyone has been unacceptable and un-Christlike. I will give you two choices: apologize to those you insulted or find the door out Talk Jesus because this place is for fellowship and spreading the gospel, not deceiving others or ourselves thinking we are now sinless.

There is no need to throw such comments at others just because their "view" is not yours. I will not waste time quoting as it is best for others to read the entire original posts from the first page to the last.

Talk Jesus is about praising and worship Jesus Christ, Savior, our GOD. Not fighting and lashing at others. Period.

Originally Posted by Timothy M.B.

I agree. But what is the standard that distinguishes between those who are truly one with Christ and those who only claim, or believe, or have an idea of what being one with Christ is?

Scripture = Truth
Christ = Savior & Judge

Who the question is...answer is GOD determines this according to His Truth found in the Bible. Not you, not me.