We need to discern and judge spiritual matters! (Acts 17:11; 1 Corinthians 2:5; 1 Corinthians 14:29)
We need to examine and judge ourselves! (1 Corinthians 11:28and31; 2 Corinthians 13:5-6)
But we can never judge another person's heart
And we must be extremely cautious and extremely gracious if we need to judge another's actions.

As Jesus said:
Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgement. John 7:24

Very good just don't assume that THOSE refers to people. Instead of events or doings and such. And angles are spirits and that second scripture refers to a time after Jesus comes.

I LOVE you in Jesus! Yeshua

I responded to this the other day but I don't know where my response went, so here goes again. I don't believe the word those refers to people, I believe those refers to doings such as heresies. And the judging of angels happens after the Lord returns. It might seem right to some that they should judge others but I believe the scriptures warn us not too.

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Prov.14:12

and

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:7

and finally

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. James 2:13

Thank you brothers and sisters for sharing. Yeshua

Originally Posted by Yeshua

Very astute, shrewd, question my friend in Christ. And that would be a whole other post which I'm now working on. Though you may discover the answer yourself I intend to rigorously persue it for you and whomsoever would seek the truth.

Here in short is the beginning of my new post to come.

(Discerning judgement)


And all God's people gather more believers to his Son. Your brother in Jesus the Christ, Yeshua

Thanks for responding... I asked the question because I think there is sometimes confusion over this issue.. and wanted to hear the opinions of people on the forum.... rather than give my thoughts now... I'd like to hear your answer.

looking forward to your article on the subject. Thanks in advance.

(Discerning judgement)

Thanks for asking...we...really want to study the truth too.

Your friend in Christ Jesus our Lord, Yeshua

I appreciate your response. THANK YOU. That is not only refreshing but it encourages me to post more often.

Your brother in Christ Jesus, Yeshua

Originally Posted by lordsria

Those are good scriptures telling us not to judge others.
We tend to judge others when we think that we are better than them. It's an ugly truth that most people don't want to hear, but next time any of you are in church, a store, or watching the news and you find yourself thinking "Wow, now that guy is nuts!" or "I'm glad I'm not like that!", remember that you just judged them, and think of the reason why you did. Is it because you think you're better than they are?

I have recently learned that there are two things that God says will keep us following Him and will please Him. I don't have my bible with me or I'd give you scriptures to back this up. I do know that it's all through the bible though, about how God hates pride and want the following:

1) Fear the Lord
and
2) Be humble

Through those two things, you can demolish the pride that makes you judge others.
God bless you!

Pappa, concerning discernment and judgment.

I too agree that this poses what I consider a conundrum that too many women I have known, have fallen victim to. For as they seek not to judge, they forgive acts of domestic violence, weaken their faith in the love of God has for them, and remain victims of violence in their own homes.

I too have come up against those who have sought to do me harm in some way or another. I did not want to judge them as the teaching of the scriptures says, and then leave them based on that judgment; or better still remain in a fearful state of being. Then ne day I read II Timothy 3: 1-5:

"This know also, that in the last days perilous time shall come....For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, un-thankful, unholy,...Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,...Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY!" (Continue reading...3:8 says "Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.")

Therefore I did not need to judge the person, but follow the scriptures instructions, stay away from the person, (even in thought). When the person came to mind, if I sensed fear, in my mind I would say "Stay away from me." If the person otherwise, came to mind I was free to pray for them to come to God.

I have found the scriptures most helpful in guiding me through such matters, at work, home, and community. I do not have to determine whether a person is good or bad deserving punishment etc. If I discern that their negative acts reflect those described in the scripture, I can act according to the instructions written in the Word of God. If someone seeks to do me harm, I say and believe: "My enemies, shall be confounded and ashamed" (Psalms 35:4); No weapons formed against me shall prosper. Every tongue that rises against me in judgment shall be condemned." (Isaiah 54:17). Then I try to rely on this: "I will give you a mouth and wisdom that your adversaries are not able to gainsay or resist. (Luke 21:15).

I say all this to emphasize that though we may not be given to consistently judge and condemn the sins of each person (thus lending our minds to be subdued with negativity); God does not intend for us, or leave us to be potential victims of those who seek to do us harm.

Bottom line, I don't have to trouble my mind in judging the goodness or evilness of a person. The scriptures have judged them. It is my job to act appropriately as instructed by the Word of God, be it to turn away from them, or pray for them.

With much love, and hope;

CQ

I thank you for your thoughts on this subject.

In the love of Christ and one another thanks again, cranquar.

Yeshua

Originally Posted by cranquar

Pappa, concerning discernment and judgment.

I too agree that this poses what I consider a conundrum that too many women I have known, have fallen victim to. For as they seek not to judge, they forgive acts of domestic violence, weaken their faith in the love of God has for them, and remain victims of violence in their own homes.

I too have come up against those who have sought to do me harm in some way or another. I did not want to judge them as the teaching of the scriptures says, and then leave them based on that judgment; or better still remain in a fearful state of being. Then ne day I read II Timothy 3: 1-5:

"This know also, that in the last days perilous time shall come....For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, un-thankful, unholy,...Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,...Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY!" (Continue reading...3:8 says "Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.")

Therefore I did not need to judge the person, but follow the scriptures instructions, stay away from the person, (even in thought). When the person came to mind, if I sensed fear, in my mind I would say "Stay away from me." If the person otherwise, came to mind I was free to pray for them to come to God.

I have found the scriptures most helpful in guiding me through such matters, at work, home, and community. I do not have to determine whether a person is good or bad deserving punishment etc. If I discern that their negative acts reflect those described in the scripture, I can act according to the instructions written in the Word of God. If someone seeks to do me harm, I say and believe: "My enemies, shall be confounded and ashamed" (Psalms 35:4); No weapons formed against me shall prosper. Every tongue that rises against me in judgment shall be condemned." (Isaiah 54:17). Then I try to rely on this: "I will give you a mouth and wisdom that your adversaries are not able to gainsay or resist. (Luke 21:15).

I say all this to emphasize that though we may not be given to consistently judge and condemn the sins of each person (thus lending our minds to be subdued with negativity); God does not intend for us, or leave us to be potential victims of those who seek to do us harm.

Bottom line, I don't have to trouble my mind in judging the goodness or evilness of a person. The scriptures have judged them. It is my job to act appropriately as instructed by the Word of God, be it to turn away from them, or pray for them.

With much love, and hope;

CQ

:sun: Thank you for sharing a reply lordsria!

Your brother in Christ Jesus, the only begotten Son of God,
Yeshua

Originally Posted by lordsria

Those are good scriptures telling us not to judge others.
We tend to judge others when we think that we are better than them. It's an ugly truth that most people don't want to hear, but next time any of you are in church, a store, or watching the news and you find yourself thinking "Wow, now that guy is nuts!" or "I'm glad I'm not like that!", remember that you just judged them, and think of the reason why you did. Is it because you think you're better than they are?

I have recently learned that there are two things that God says will keep us following Him and will please Him. I don't have my bible with me or I'd give you scriptures to back this up. I do know that it's all through the bible though, about how God hates pride and want the following:

1) Fear the Lord
and
2) Be humble

Through those two things, you can demolish the pride that makes you judge others.
God bless you!

Judge Not that ye may not be judged.

The last statement, in particular, is used frequently by both well-meaning Christians and non-Christians alike to defend their viewpoints. It's particularly fascinating to see non-Christians rushing to the Bible to quote from it. But has this quote been taken out of context?

This passage is from Matthew 7:1, but the entire passage states: Matt 7:1-5 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Jesus condemned the hypocritical judgement by those who held others to a higher standard of judgement than they themselves were willing to live by. He was not saying that we should not judge, but that taking a speck out of a brother's eye is proper provided that you first take the plank out of your own eye. We are also told not to judge other peoples' motives.

In 1 Samuel 16:7 God told Samuel: "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Thessalonians 5:21 states: "Test everything. Hold on to the good." Jesus said "Stop judging by mere appearances, but make a right judgment." (John 7:24) Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:15," "I speak to sensible people; judge for yourself what I say." We are told throughout the Scriptures to be wary of false doctrine, false teachers, false prophets who would come right into the Church. Jesus said false prophets would come as wolves in sheep's clothing (Matt. 7:15).

Paul told the elders at Ephesus that savage wolves would enter in, not sparing the flock (Acts 20:29). "And from among your own selves," he added, "men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them" (v. 30.) He wrote "The Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons" (1 Timothy 4:1). We are also supposed to judge one another with regard to overt acts of sin. Paul wrote, "Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves" (1 Cor. 5:12-13).

Some other passages which emphasize the necessity of judging: Proverbs 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent [man] looketh well to his going. 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own body; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the innocent. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge. And speaking about the Bereans, Luke said in Acts 17:11, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." They were not even ready to take Paul's word for anything, but checked everything with the Scriptures, using them as the final judge of what was of God and what wasn't.

Without using judgement we would never be able to determine what was true and what wasn't. "What, can't we trust our feelings? If it feels like it's from God, then it must be, right?" Not according to Jeremiah 17:9. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Even as Christians we can be deceived by our feelings. That is why we hold that Scripture is the final authority on all matters.
How Are Christians Suppose To Judge?

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged." "Jesus is here speaking of the final judgement... The admonition not to judge is often taken incorrectly to imply that believers are not to make moral judgements about anything. That this is not intended is clear from verses 15-20, which warn of false prophets who can be known by the fruit that they bear. Jesus does not ask us to lay aside our critical faculties but rather resist the urge to speak harshly of others." (Robert H. Mounce, Matthew, pg.64)

"Judge not refers to an unfavorable and condemnatory judgement. This does not mean that a Christian should never render judgement of any kind under any circumstances... The point being made here is that we are not to judge the inner motives of another. We are not to render a verdict based upon prejudiced information... That ye be not judged seems to refer to the ultimate judgement of God rather than our own judgement. (Edward E. Hindson - Liberty Bible Commentary, pg.1901)

"Some cautions about reproving. Because we must not judge others, which is a great sin, it does not therefore follow that we must not reprove others, which is a great duty, and may be a means of saving a soul from death..." (Matthew Henry, Commentary on the Bible. pg.1643)

The Bible also declares that there is righteous judgement "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." John 7:24 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: 1 Cor 2:14,15.

"But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you." 1 Cor 5:11-13.

"As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer." 1 Tim. 1:3.

I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. -Matthew 10:16 The need for righteous judgement and spiritual discernment in the church today is evident For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. Acts 20:27

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.-Acts 20:28 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. -Acts 20:29

Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. -Eph 4:14 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Tim 4:1-2.

If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. -1 Tim 4:6 And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. 2 Tim 2:24-26 Preach the Word; be prepared in season a nd out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. -2 Tim 4:2 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.-2 Tim 4:3 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. -2 Tim 4:4 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. -Titus 1:9.

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. -Jude 1:3 Eph 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Eph 5:12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. As for judging, here's an excerpt from an article I've done on that matter.


I posted this from a website.... sometimes people write it much better then I could ever say...

I think everybody should get their dictionary out..

definitions fo Judge..

1) to from a judgement or opinion
2)to infer.,think or hold as opinon
3) to make a carefull guess about
4) to form an estimate

everybody seems to know only the bad definitions.... isnt that something

I personnal think most people toss that verse around it to try to take power out of christians that they are not to point right from wrong.. or tell a christian who is error by bible standards that the hand of God will come against them or something like that if you judge me

How terrible for christians to fall for such a trap.. for that is all it is.. But mind you.. Hyprocritial judgement is strictly forbiden....

Mind you its not our place to judge the secular world.. after all they are not christians.., We have no right to shake are fingers at them.
.
1 Peter 4:15 - But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a BUSYBODY in other men's matters.

when witnessing thats another thing we do have to point out scripture... But as far a christians are concerned.. by the very difinition of the word.. Yes we must Judge... are we not accountable one to another

1 Peter 5:5 - Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

How are we not to tell are brother who is error.? do we not make a judement about the matter first.. we first must know word of God and second make a judgement on it.. but must as the bible says with all love and make sure its not the same we are currently guilty of.

and do we not make judgement.. concerning all those flase teacheres out there.. like binny hinn... Like one christian told how dare you judge him he is a man a God.. I said really... lets see what the bible says.. I will allways point out when a christian or somebody searching about God when they ask about some TV when they are in such gross error.. could I do no less..?

in love

Kevin

ps... I will be the first to admit I have and still make bad judgements. but the grace of God I try to correct myself and watch myself all the more