I'm in agreement with Atonement. He has mentioned what we mentioned before. Your friend I'm afraid seems very closed minded indeed. A kind that boxes GOD into only what their limited understanding is. A bad way to treat and view GOD.

"....for I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children to Abraham." (Luke 3:8)

What a powerful verse! It shows that God can take any created thing, tangible or intangible, and turn it to His purposes. And that includes "Rock Music".

SLE

I might stand alone here but I agree with your friend (to an extent). Not everything can be used to worship God, and not all of our concepts of worship are acceptable to Him.

The Bible speaks of 'strange fire' being burned on the altar (Leviticus 10:1); in appearance it is the same fire, but in God's eyes it is unacceptable. Similarly, Cain's offering was refused by God because it was according to his own concept, and not God's direct revelation. Abel offered a lamb according to the principle of atonement, a foreshadowing of Christ, while Cain invented his own kind of worship and was rejected.

For example, nothing sinful could ever be offered to God - do you imagine that you could take money that had been obtained by gambling and give it to the Lord? Perhaps you could, but He would never accept it. It would be an insult to Him.

In principle, I think the same applies with worldly things, including much popular music. If something has a worldly flavor, no matter if it uses the word 'God', it might also be worldly in God's eyes.

Having said that, I don't want to come across as judgmental. I have my own discernment and my own feeling. If the Lord in you approves of something then by all means I know your heart is for the Lord, and He judges our hearts.

But before you can take a side, it would be wise for you to prove it? Everything can be used for God's Glory.. Everything!

If a person was a crack addict, and was turned around by the Grace of God, what a testimony this person will have on the streets with other crack addicts. Ex Gang members have a strong testimony on the streets. I'm a Youth minister and I know the importance of one's testimony. There is nothing that can not be used by God.

If you dislike rock music that is fine, but to judge it by saying it's "worldly" is not correct, because you have yet to prove that.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

What are you asking me to prove; that rock music is worldly? Does that need to be proven? Or what do you imagine that the world is?

A person's testimony of salvation certainly will be used by the Lord- but (to use your example) a crack addict was saved out of their addiction. We're saved out of our sinful, worldly past, and our testimony is the transformation that the Lord has wrought in our being and our expression. It denotes the putting away of our former life, and testifying to the Lord's grace and power in changing us.

So if a person is saved out of something, how should they go back to it and use it again?
I was saved out of many things - drugs, etc, etc. When I was saved, I spontaneously took my collection of music and novels and threw them away. I was very much into all kinds of music, but my tastes changed. Suddenly I was hungry for the Bible, I enjoyed singing simple hymns to the Lord, and meeting with other believers in a pure way. I can't listen to rock music in the same way - the content is often totally ungodly. Why would I want my worship to the Lord to have the same flavor as the things of my old man that I sloughed off in my baptism?

Yes it needs to be proven. What if someone sung a Church hymm (Amazing Grace) for an example and they turned the lyrics into something about rape or hatred? Is it still a Church song because the "music" is Churchy? Come on now be real!

I'm glad that you asked. You are speaking to an ex-Satanist of five years before I came to the Lord. My testimony has turned MANY lives around. In fact my Church rented out "Tingley Coliseum" here in Albuquerque in 1993'. It was labeled "Satanism Unmasked" we invited Satanist from all over the state of New Mexico. Do you how many people turned to the Lord that evening and became a child of God? Hundreds of souls were saved that night.

I'm a Youth Pastor for Calvary Chapel, we go out on the weekends and preach on the streets to the same people who have addictions of crack, Meth, Alcohol etc. So this is how someone who was saved from this, and how they can now use it for the benefit of God..

A bottle of beer and Music played a certain way is not the same...
he's still looking at the way the instruments are played and put together make them evil and until he gets OVER that, he will never see it any other way.
all the books of the bible tell about God, or Christ
except: song of solomon. does this mean it's wrong?
It's a purely a love story. Singing about human love.
Bible also tells us in Psalms 150:1-6 to praise God with everything you have.
God MADE music...and it was good all of it. It's the words that make the song evil or good.
I'm still trying to convince my "old school" husband of this too...lol
I figure like this if it takes listening to Tobymac or Kirk Franklin to bring someone to Christ SO BE IT! You are no more saved if you asked Jesus into your heart after you listened to Amazing Grace or Made To Love...
good luck convincing tho...

Bingo and amen to the red highlighted part. Its crazy to even think anyone can box in GOD and assume what GOD is capable of using for His glory or not. Its actually so absurd that any human would dare even do that, based on their VERY limited knowledge and understanding of GOD.

That's a wonderful testimony atonement. :)

However you did not 'use' satanism to preach the gospel, but your deliverance out of it. The Lord's salvation can make a sinner into a child of God, but He could never use their sin per se for His purpose except as a kind of anti-testimony.

So how should I 'prove' that rock is worldly? The Bible never speaks of rock music. But are you telling me that bands like say...My Chemical Romance are not worldly? They epitomize the world.

For that matter, prove to me from the Word that 'God can use everything'. In fact the Bible shows very clearly that not every form of Christian service or worship will be accepted by God in the day of judgment:

So do you imagine that you can save people from the world by offering them a virtually indistinguishable alternative? We are commanded that we should not be fashioned according to this age, yet to all appearances some Christian music is identical to its worldly counterpart apart from its lyrics (which are often obscured by the music anyway).

Song of Songs is absolutely about Christ. I would encourage you to get hold of Watchman Nee's Song of Songs, or Madame Guyon's, or Union and Communion (can't remember the name of the author sorry). They open up the spiritual riches in that book :). I would say it's among my favorite books of the Bible in terms of the way it opens up our relationship with Christ.

Okay you are being stubborn like an old mule.

Okay let's talk bands since this is how you want to debate this topic. 1st I'm sorry, I never heard of the band Chemical Romance. But I've heard of bands such as Metallica, I've heard Megadeth, I've heard of Slayer, Canibal Corspe, Sepultura, Obituary and even music that has been dedicated to Satan himself with bands like Deicide, and Venom. These are bands I use to listen too. Now before you judge 'Rock music' like you are doing here Cerebus. Why don't you go to your local Christian music store and check out these bands. Buy the CD (don't worry they all come with lyrics).

White Cross
Believer
Vengeance Rising
Seventh Angel
Tourniquet
Casting Crowns

And then take a strong look within yourself and see if rock music is all worldy. Buy the way at many local Christian stores you can put on a set of head phones and listen to music before you purchase an item

Oh and just so you know, the lead singer of Vengeance Rising is a pastor of one of the largest Church's in Southern California. That's an eye opener!

And what about more popular bands/groups/people that you might know? Who have made rock tunes?

Michael W. Smith
Amy Grant
Hosanna
Carmen

How do you explain this 'worldy' music coming from the heart of some of the most influential Christians today?

Of course you can not prove 'rock music' is worldy, this is why I asked you to prove it, because all we have is your opinion, and you are entitled to your opinion of course, but you are being closed minded in the process. Because you have passed judgment before actually buying and listening to a Christian 'rock' CD.. And that is my opinion.